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Isnt their a huge amount of Debre in the arctic?

The El-Aurin can be explained, ENT cant.

Teaos wrote:Isnt their a huge amount of Debre in the arctic?

The El-Aurin can be explained, ENT cant.

It was a longer time between ENT and TNG and Generations and TNG. A lot more to go wrong, there, or even get lost/forgotten. heck, maybe the debris inspired the Hansens?

And it still baffles me that someone-anyone didn't ask the El-Aurians about them.

Hey, I've got it! By the late 22nd century, the northern ice cap melted, and the Borg debris sank to the bottom of the ocean! Then, weather control fixed the environment, and it froze over again. And, everyone involved was mind-wiped by Section 31.

And it still baffles me that someone-anyone didn't ask the El-Aurians about them.

They probably did but that is hardly fact, which is what is taught.

Tsukiyumi wrote:Hey, I've got it! By the late 22nd century, the northern ice cap melted, and the Borg debris sank to the bottom of the ocean! Then, weather control fixed the environment, and it froze over again. And, everyone involved was mind-wiped by Section 31.

Sounds like something they would do.
I guess its a somewhat plausible explination (better than my "Archer forgot to write his report, and the Borg took all the debris with them" theory)

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:

Teaos wrote:Isnt their a huge amount of Debre in the arctic?

The El-Aurin can be explained, ENT cant.

It was a longer time between ENT and TNG and Generations and TNG. A lot more to go wrong, there, or even get lost/forgotten. heck, maybe the debris inspired the Hansens?

And it still baffles me that someone-anyone didn't ask the El-Aurians about them.

Almost certainly the El-Aurians were asked and told what happened to their homeworld, otherwise we have to assume the Hansens got their speculative information about the Borg from some totally different source than the El-Aurians.

Duskofdead wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:

Teaos wrote:Isnt their a huge amount of Debre in the arctic?

The El-Aurin can be explained, ENT cant.

It was a longer time between ENT and TNG and Generations and TNG. A lot more to go wrong, there, or even get lost/forgotten. heck, maybe the debris inspired the Hansens?

And it still baffles me that someone-anyone didn't ask the El-Aurians about them.

Almost certainly the El-Aurians were asked and told what happened to their homeworld, otherwise we have to assume the Hansens got their speculative information about the Borg from some totally different source than the El-Aurians.

So why were the Borg such a total surprise to the Enterprise? The retcons didn't start with ENT dealing with the Borg.

Before ENT fucked up the Borg plot line, first offical contact was in "Q who?"

There had been reports from the El-Aurin and such before then, thats how the Hansens knew about them but nothing offical Picard would have known about.

Then ENT came along, pulled down its pants and shat all over canon.

Teaos wrote:Before ENT ****** up the Borg plot line, first offical contact was in "Q who?"

There had been reports from the El-Aurin and such before then, thats how the Hansens knew about them but nothing offical Picard would have known about.

Then ENT came along, pulled down its pants and shat all over canon.

Annkia built a friggin' scale model of a cube in the Raven. VOY did the messing up before ENT. So did Generations. Q WHo's not it anymore.

Annikas information could have come from the El-Aurin.

Picard, Data, Riker, none of them had heard about these guys apparently.

The Hansens only had rumors to go by, they stated that directly.

Teaos wrote:Annikas information could have come from the El-Aurin.

Picard, Data, Riker, none of them had heard about these guys apparently.

The Hansens only had rumors to go by, they stated that directly.

I think accounts of an implacable, highly-advanced cybernetic race would've been in Starfleet records-including their name and ship designs. If Annika could build a cube, then Data should've known what one looked like.

Refugee: OMG we just got attacked by a bunch of cyborgs in a mile wide cube.

Starfleet: Ah... sure. Lets just make a note about that.


It was a rumor known among the exobiology people in starfleet. Not everyone would hear it and not everyone would believe it. Hell no one but the Hansens did.

Teaos wrote:Refugee: OMG we just got attacked by a bunch of cyborgs in a mile wide cube.

Starfleet: Ah... sure. Lets just make a note about that.


It was a rumor known among the exobiology people in starfleet. Not everyone would hear it and not everyone would believe it. Hell no one but the Hansens did.

I daresay they'd be slightly more articulate than that. And multiple accounts would boost it from rumor to fact.

Teaos wrote:Before ENT ****** up the Borg plot line, first offical contact was in "Q who?"

There had been reports from the El-Aurin and such before then, thats how the Hansens knew about them but nothing offical Picard would have known about.

Then ENT came along, pulled down its pants and shat all over canon.

While the situation annoys me. What I think we might be better annoyed with is time travel.

In the origional timeline there were no borg firing at Zephram and all that. So the whole ENT episode wouldn't have happened.

First Contact made a new timeline. For all we know in the new timeline in "Q Who" they have heard of these Borg things, but it just doesn't change time enough that anyone notices when they come back at the end of First Contact.

I mean in all these time travel episodes things have to be a little different when they arrive back in the future. It's just that unless the Federation got wiped out or something they don't bother about it.

Actually that could have been an interesting episode idea. Have a couple minor crew members be different in the new timeline. The people in the origional timeline didn't exist in the universe they find themselves in. Or maybe it doesn't quite work that way.

Teaos wrote:Annikas information could have come from the El-Aurin.

Picard, Data, Riker, none of them had heard about these guys apparently.

The Hansens only had rumors to go by, they stated that directly.

I think the most reasonable explanation is that the Federation heard a debriefing from the El-Aurians (who are not always forthcoming with information, if you noticed) and got some vague descriptions of the Borg, but probably few of the actual survivors had ever actually seen a Borg vessel or could accurately describe the Borg themselves. Even Guinan's information was secondhand, she might have heard a vague description of the Borg cube's appearance (how can you miss a cube-shaped starship?) but beyond that she didn't have any specific technical detail. Only that they were very dangerous and very powerful and cybernetic, which is what she told the Enterprise-D crew. I don't think it was a mess up at all; the Hansens basically admitted that they were laughed out of the scientific community for taking the theory about the Borg seriously, implying that Starfleet considered the El-Aurian information tentative or apocryphal at best, which makes sense, given that the information by that point was quite old and few firsthand witnesses survived to give any detailed accounts.

In essence, it was like someone saying they got attacked by Bigfoot. They had the bruises and broken bones to prove they were attacked by something, but everyone would kind of raise eyebrows at the idea that it was Bigfoot. But a few researchers took it seriously and staked their careers on finding out about Bigfoot. Same sort of situation.