Re: Ambassador & Galaxy class
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:04 pm
Hmm... agreeing with someone else's post is now "trolling," is it? Or, do you mean that any post which doesn't agree with you is "trolling?"
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
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You make a very valid point here, Deep. I admit to, and apologize for, rehashing a point if I've done so. I would unfortunately have to remind you at this juncture that what you've just mentioned applies equally to all parties involved...Deepcrush wrote:The points of the topic have been repeated so many times... and yet you guys still just flat out ignore them in favor of continuing to impress the point as to why the forum is burning out. Whats the point of even involving yourselves if you don't do anything but drag out threads?
The details of this topic have been covered, period. So why is it the same non-sense is being repeatedly posted?
Fail safe separation of antimatter from the starship's matter is not a stupid goal. If fail safe ejection of all antimatter is not possible, perhaps starships should follow the Oberth pattern. I favor dead-man switched ejection capsules as a last resort when the powered shutdown-eject won't work, and I think Captain Seafort's idea is only for last resorts also.GrahamKennedy wrote:Every piece of technology and equipment I mention above is directly from canon as being an element of Federation warp cores. No person alive today has a clue what most of them are, how they work, how big how are, etc. Since it's made up science and technology, there's not one person on the face of this Earth who is qualified to say a damn thing about it with any level of confidence.
The idea that all of this not only can but MUST be designed to automatically pop out the bottom of the ship like some demented jack-in-a-box anytime there's a problem is stupid
It's not a stupid goal, but it's stupid to assume that it must automatically be possible to achieve it simply because people who know next to nothing about the systems involved say so. Last resort fail safe ejectors are a lovely idea, IF they can work. There is no reason to suppose that they can, and some reason to suppose that having them would be a suicide switch. A safety system that destroys the ship is not sane, even if it's only used in the absolute most dire emergency when the ship will blow up anyway.Tholian_Avenger wrote:Fail safe separation of antimatter from the starship's matter is not a stupid goal. If fail safe ejection of all antimatter is not possible, perhaps starships should follow the Oberth pattern. I favor dead-man switched ejection capsules as a last resort when the powered shutdown-eject won't work, and I think Captain Seafort's idea is only for last resorts also.GrahamKennedy wrote:Every piece of technology and equipment I mention above is directly from canon as being an element of Federation warp cores. No person alive today has a clue what most of them are, how they work, how big how are, etc. Since it's made up science and technology, there's not one person on the face of this Earth who is qualified to say a damn thing about it with any level of confidence.
The idea that all of this not only can but MUST be designed to automatically pop out the bottom of the ship like some demented jack-in-a-box anytime there's a problem is stupid
Sorry, but you just aren't in a position to make those judgments. When it comes to trilithium and tellerium and such, you don't know if flooding the area with inert gases does any good. You don't know if it's possible to use dead-man switched double valves. You don't know if it's even possible to transport the stuff, nor if magnetic fields or force fields have any effect on them. Nobody can know, because half of that stuff is just made up and has whatever properties the writers decide to give it.Power supply and data link connectors can use couplings which mechanically separate at a specified tension. The piping for the reactants and products will have to use dead-man switched double valves to cap the material flows. It's possible that when the Trilithium and Tellerium valves have their gates sprung shut, an inert chemical is released to flood the surroundings (where appropriate) or a one-off minitransporter could "clean" the surroundings. Some of these may make use of isolated back up power systems to provide magnetic fields (or a shield) in addition to physical barriers. Armored silos might be a good idea for ejection capsules (and are probably already used in conjunction with blast/pressure doors) and will hopefully be sucked clean by the vacuum of space. Once clear of the silo, an ejection capsule could use any number of means, even mere solid rocket boosters to distance the ship.
I don't recall that episode.stitch626 wrote:I think what he means by the Oberth pattern is the way the Oberth has a pod which could presumably hold all of the explosive stuff and be quickly jettisoned without risk to the crew.
Physically, I can't recon why it would be impossible on any mass flow system.GrahamKennedy wrote:You don't know if it's possible to use dead-man switched double valves.
GrahamKennedy wrote:I don't know what you mean by "the Oberth pattern".
I haven't seen an Oberth do so, but to couple this idea with Saucer Seperation seems an ideal way to guillotine the head so it can run away if the guts can't be vomited out.stitch626 wrote:the Oberth pattern is the way the Oberth has a pod which could presumably hold all of the explosive stuff and be quickly jettisoned without risk to the crew.
That's fan speculation. And we've seen an Oberth killed with one hit from a Bird of Prey, so such a system doesn't do a whole lot of good even if they have it.stitch626 wrote:I think what he means by the Oberth pattern is the way the Oberth has a pod which could presumably hold all of the explosive stuff and be quickly jettisoned without risk to the crew.
Well that is true. Yamato and the E-D both have computers with no firewalls.Deepcrush wrote:Yamato, had a virus which took over their computer system. Had no manual override for the computer or warp core. No way to eject the core upon going critical. No system in place to restore the main computer.
All things that effected the Ent-D which is supposed to have the best crew of Starfleet. So no, its not a "Ent-D only" deal. All the problems above where consistent with the Ent-D's later failings.
Then its clear to be a class issue and not just related to the E-D.McAvoy wrote:Well that is true. Yamato and the E-D both have computers with no firewalls.
A, what you're inclined to think isn't of any value if what you're thinking about has zero to do with the show.McAvoy wrote:However, I am more inclined to think there has to be something wrong with the E-D or the crew itself than a class-wide series of problems. I mean in every case where the E-D exploded we have other situations where other classes of ships did fine. Hell even the prototype itself took direct hits at the Battle of Chintaka where the core should be. Most have merely said they may have fixed the problems by then. What if they didn't and it was the E-D only that had the issue. No way to be sure in either case.
Again wrong... What prototype did we see in Nemesis? Where was the USS Galaxy non-refitted mk-I GCS prototype in ST Nemesis, because I must have missed it. You keep coming back with the "What if TNG never happened and we make up our own history of it" which doesn't work for this point of debate. Ignoring canon is fine when you're making up your own fluff or cross-over. However, ignoring canon does not work when the question being posed is about the canon time line.McAvoy wrote:All we have is no Galaxy's being destroyed left and right. The prototype lived well until Nemesis. Did the USS Galaxy live a charmed life? She was built the same time as the Yamato and the E-D.