Unfortunately, every other week she vacillated from all moral and principled to ruthlessly pragmatic and uncaring.GrahamKennedy wrote:makes her look all moral and principled and stuff.
Allegiance
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Re: Allegiance
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
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Re: Allegiance
A better way to do it would therefore be to have made the Kazon a much greater and much nastier threat - a serious threat to Voyager and the aim of exterminating the Ocampa, only being stopped by far superior Caretaker technology. Their aim could therefore have been to board the array and use its weapons to punch through the Ocampa's shield, with Voyager too weak to drive them off but having remote access to the displacement wave controls (given them by the Caretaker). Janeway would have been left with the option of activating the array and going home (and leaving the array in the Kazon's hands) or destroying it from long range.GrahamKennedy wrote:In theory, the way the writers went is the better way to go, from a writing point of view. But the way they constructed the dilemma was bad; they needed to arrange things so that Janeway had to choose to either go home or let the Ocampa die, with no other options. They did a pretty poor job of it.
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Re: Allegiance
Or come up with something not involving the Ocampa which are possibly one of the stupidest species ever seen.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Re: Allegiance
I quite liked the idea of a short lived species. Kes was 2 in season 1, so if she had stuck around she would have been dying of old age just about the time Voyager got back. It could have been a great way to show a character evolving throughout the show - she's have been almost a child at the start, a middle aged woman by season three or so, etc. She could even have had a kid or two along the way. Unfortunately they didn't bother with all that and just decided to make her a magic woman instead.
Their reproduction also bothers me. Each Ocampan female has one chance to have one child in her life? They don't have to worry about the Kazon, their population must be at least cut in half every generation just because of their own stupid biology.
Their reproduction also bothers me. Each Ocampan female has one chance to have one child in her life? They don't have to worry about the Kazon, their population must be at least cut in half every generation just because of their own stupid biology.
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Re: Allegiance
Yeah thats the sort of problem that makes you wonder what the writers were thinking.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Re: Allegiance
I said the exact same thing in another thread about them: the Ocampa were f*cked long before the Kazon ever encountered them.
Seriously, it would require every member of the species, both male and female, to reproduce to achieve zero percent population growth.
Seriously, it would require every member of the species, both male and female, to reproduce to achieve zero percent population growth.
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Re: Allegiance
Woudnt it be -50% population growth?
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Re: Allegiance
Ahem.Teaos wrote:Woudnt it be -50% population growth?
The Ocampa could theoretically have sustained zero population growth, if they were an hermaphrodite species.Rochey wrote:Seriously, it would require every member of the species, both male and female, to reproduce to achieve zero percent population growth.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
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Re: Allegiance
Oh right, didnt even think of that.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Re: Allegiance
No surprise there - the species' sexual dimorphism proves pretty conclusively that they're not hermaphrodites.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Re: Allegiance
Maybe twins and triplets are common.
Or is there dialogue to dispute this, its been a while since I've seen the episode.
Or is there dialogue to dispute this, its been a while since I've seen the episode.
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Re: Allegiance
The idea of the Ocampa short life span i thought was pretty good. it was different, i certainly cant remember a race that lived less time than my flobbadob lump cat.
But the way they were implemented as bloody aweful.
But the way they were implemented as bloody aweful.
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Re: Allegiance
There's dialogue - in Elogium, where this "one birth per female" stupidity started, Kes repeatedly refered to having her "child". If multiple births were that common she'd have said "children".kostmayer wrote:Maybe twins and triplets are common.
Or is there dialogue to dispute this, its been a while since I've seen the episode.
There's also "Before and After" where Kes, her daughter, and her grandson were all shown to be only children.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
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Re: Allegiance
I suppose the species could be 90% female and 10% male. That way the men all knock up 9 woman each and only have 10% population loss a generation... still stupid.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Re: Allegiance
So basically the Ocampa were doomed. unless they developed or were given some form of advanced genetic manipulation that allows them to produce multiple children throughout their lifespan.