Hand weapons

[Sionnach Glic]

Ah, okay, thanks.

[RX-178]

The MG being the center of infantry combat is a tactical notion that comes from the German army, in both WW2, and later on in NATO during the cold war, so this notion has spread widely. But it IS still just one form of tactical doctrine for infantry. You can also see this in the quality of equipment during WW2. The superb MG34 and MG42 machineguns, but only K98 bolt action rifles for the rest of the infantry.

The American tactical doctrine for Infantry in WW2 was based on the rifleman. The machinegun was simply a supporting weapon, to allow riflemen to advance and actually kill the enemy. As a result, US machineguns were generally poor designs (the BAR, which was too light, and was incapable of sustained fire, and the M1919A6, which was FAR too heavy!), but the rifles were excellent (M1 Garand).

[Aaron]

Thanks for the history lesson but what's your point?

[RX-178]

Well, going by these designs it looks like they were designed for units that had much greater use for a rifle than for a machinegun.

All battles are fought for IMPORTANT land. In the future, where transporting troops is much faster, and easier, armies don't typically meet out on open battlefields, but right in the middle of the cities, where the economic centers, and government infrastructure are. That support weapon design is much too large and heavy (particularly if ammunition needs to be carried) to be of much use in that environment, except on vehicle mounts, or in emplaced, fortified positions.

The light support weapon variant of the rifle would be completely adequate for the role. The true problem with the L86 LSW that the British selected was not that it had a low magazine capacity, but because its barrel was fixed. If the barrel overheated, the weapon was out of action. In these rifle designs, the barrels can be changed easily, so if one barrel has overheated, it can simply be detached, replaced with a new one, and be ready to fire again. Also, the average amount of ammunition in a belt box for a light machinegun is 200 rounds (for 5.56x45mm weapons), or 100 rounds (7.62x51mm weapons).

Your average drum magazine will hold from 75-100 rounds, and is replaced with a fresh magazine much faster than it is to start a new belt. There's no significant difference in the amount of firepower available.

[Mikey]

In a true sprawl, like I would expect of the urban centers of the 'Trek world, a bullpup assault rifle would be even more useful.

[RX-178]

The problem with the bullpup layout is that it is extremely difficult to use a drum magazine with most designs, although when it comes to performance and size, I'd have to agree that a bullpup is superior. But just to play devil's advocate, there are some shortcomings. None of them are really insurmountable, but they're common nonetheless.

It's more difficult to rapidly reload a bullpup weapon than a weapon with a standard layout. On a conventional-layout weapon, you can easily see the magazine well to reload, while in a bullpup weapon, you cannot. Well trained soldiers won't take their eyes off the target when reloading anyway, so this is an issue that can be solved without modifying the weapon.

On most bullpup weapons, the safeties and other controls are less easily reached than on a conventional-layout weapon. On most conventional-layout weapons, all of the controls can be operated with the firing hand. On a good number of bullpup weapons, this is not the case. Some bullpups even use rather outlandish control concepts to get around this (the Steyr AUG using a shotgun-like crossbolt safety, rather than a selector switch, and using two trigger pull stages to select semi automatic or full automatic. All of these solutions bring their own problems). But others do succeed in making their controls properly ergonomic, so this can be fixed in the design stage.

The flaw with bullpup weapons designs that has kept the USA from even considering them for adoption, is one that cannot be corrected. These weapons are less safe to the shooter. In a KB failure (KB standing for 'Ka Boom'... and yes, that's a technical term), the magazine is going to be launched out of the weapon, and pieces of internal parts are going to be flying from the general area of the ejection port and chamber at high speeds. In a conventional layout weapon, the chamber and ejection port are well forward enough that the most injury that you'll usually see are to the hands and forearm. In a bullpup weapon, the chamber and ejection port are directly beneath the shooter's face. So, the same shrapnel flying out...


Most weapons are reliable enough that that a KB failure is incredibly unlikely, but they do say that if you use and abuse any firearm enough, it's eventually going to happen. And in combat, 'abuse' is the exactly right term for what these weapons go through.

[Aaron]

Why don't you just read the thread, your points have been covered. Just with less verbage.

[Mikey]

And even with those flaws, bullpup weapons provide the advantages in urban/close wuarters environments to which you were speaking.

[Aaron]

And even with those flaws, bullpup weapons provide the advantages in urban/close wuarters environments to which you were speaking.

A fair number of conventional weapons can be fitted with a short barrel but regardless the AUG and FAMAS have been found reliable enough to equip sever al countries Armies. Though I have no idea wtf he is going on about KB failures. I've never heard of these and you'd think it would have been covered in one of the lectures and training sessions in the CF. THe only thing that comes close to what he describes is an mg barrel that is white hot.

[Mikey]

One would think. And from what I understand, having never served in an armed force, carbine versions of assault rifles tend to lose accuracy for the same space savings as an unshortened bullpup.

[Aaron]

One would think. And from what I understand, having never served in an armed force, carbine versions of assault rifles tend to lose accuracy for the same space savings as an unshortened bullpup.

Most likely, a longer barrel does usually mean better accuracy.