No one is saying its imposible for them to use it. We're saying its very unlikely they'd ever even discover it unless it was introduced to them.
Well, if we're going with how likely something is, how likely is it that a bunch of apes would learn to use sticks to dig with, or that humans would learn to create artificial flying machines, or even come to exist at all? The whole point of the Star Trek galaxy is that the series of events that led to our existence is not only likely, it has been repeated millions of times in all kinds of varying enviroments. As you've said, their learning to harness technology would depend on them finding a way to keep the electricity within certain bounds, whether by encasing it in some sort of other medium (such as air), or some other process. But, in the Star Trek universe, if not in our own, there is no reason why such a species could not exist and thrive.
Just my thoughts....
"Lo, blessed are our ears for they have heard;
Yea, blessed are our eyes for they have seen:
Let the thunder break on man and beast and bird
And the lightning. It is something to have been."
It would be far more likely than an aquatic species developing technology to get into space.
The whole point of the Star Trek galaxy is that the series of events that led to our existence is not only likely, it has been repeated millions of times in all kinds of varying enviroments.
"Millions" might be overstating it a little bit.
You're right though that Trek does show things that are less likely than they are in real life.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
You said the odds of an Aquatic civilization starting were slim, I agreed but when I said 1/10,000 odds I meant the odds are so sliim that even if the odds were that you'd still have nearly a 100% chance of finding one because of the sheer scope of space.
From a marketing stand point it makes far more sense to make up a new race. And Star Trek is a business afterall.
Monroe wrote:First they created the Romulans and Klingons but of course they needed a larger threat. Old enemies get boring. So they made the Borg then the Dominion. Each one controlling most of a quadrant if not more. It is only logical that if they made another Star Trek series they would release one if not two Empires twice as big / powerful as the Borg. Otherwise the audiences can't be captivated.
The Galaxy still has plenty off room for a powerful Empire between Gama and Delta quadrants or even a sister Empire to the Dominion. And Space's so vast it could be a roaming race similiar to how the Yuuzhan Vong were introduced in Star Wars.
So what kind of race would you like to see?
Would love to see more of the species that created the Dyson Sphere...
All I want to see is the race that built the Dyson Sphere(s?), I think that would be amazing. Have a whole series of trek simply based on mapping it and unlocking the secrets and history of it.
Personally I would like to see a roaming race similiar to the bug races in Starship Troopers / Starcraft / Warhammer 40k. They would be almost like a biological Borg. Would be really awesome, I think anyway.
I also wouldn't mind seeing more of Species 8472 and Oh I don't know, naming them a real name. The Sphere Builders seemed like a good idea too. But I don't like the idea of more humanoids..
Last edited by MetalHead on Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Beware what you intend to say, those words will always make you pay." - Soilwork
It would be rear and probably take them ages to evolve but I still think we'd come across them sooner or latter and they would be a cool species to see.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
An aquatic race could always develop metal-smelting tech from undersea volcanic vents, right? Fashion the skin of species that live near the vents as protection from the heat, and bring ores to the vents for melting. Something along those lines could work. Of course, it would take such a species 10,000 times longer to develop spacefaring technology than a land-based species, but I could see it being possible, if highly unlikely.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
Tsukiyumi wrote:An aquatic race could always develop metal-smelting tech from undersea volcanic vents, right? Fashion the skin of species that live near the vents as protection from the heat, and bring ores to the vents for melting. Something along those lines could work. Of course, it would take such a species 10,000 times longer to develop spacefaring technology than a land-based species, but I could see it being possible, if highly unlikely.
Which is why the Xindi-aquatic makes sense; multiple types of species on one planet, sharing technology.
Don't you hear my call, though you're many years away, don't you hear me calling you?
But then you have the almost complete unbeliveability of 6 sentient species evolving on one planet.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Reliant121 wrote:Just out of interest, why do you need fire? Does it have any variance on developing warp drive? Just because we found out how to make fire doesn't mean that without that knowledge, we cant make the atomic bomb? Or, cure cancer.
Because without fire you can't forge and temper metal which is the basis for all technology required to get into space.
And anyway, did not the shark evolve from a stupid sea creature to a efficient, clever, cunning and destructive killing machine?
None of that required sapience. It was simple natural selection which drove that. It never required to make the leap from sentience to sapience so it hasn't. It's still just a dumb animal.
That was why I brought up volcanic vents; very difficult, extremely dangerous, but it's potentially feasible that they could be used to smelt metals. Now, about electricity... Unless they could generate it themselves like electric eels, or electric catfish...
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
I like lasagna. Oh wait, this is about a new species, right.
I suppose the vents idea is no more of a stretch than expecting humanoids that look like us to be out there amongst the galaxy. Carbon based life will have similar characteristics, but c'mon, the odds of there beign a species that looks as close to us as Vulcans do is far more out there than an acquatic species eventually developing sentience.
I still like lasagna.
Don't you hear my call, though you're many years away, don't you hear me calling you?
Tsukiyumi wrote:That was why I brought up volcanic vents; very difficult, extremely dangerous, but it's potentially feasible that they could be used to smelt metals. Now, about electricity... Unless they could generate it themselves like electric eels, or electric catfish...
It's doubtful that volcanic vents could be used to forge metals, for one they provide for no control over the heat. And they only get so hot. Even if we grant that they could forge metal from vents there's no way that an industrial civilisation could spring forth from the sea. There's not enough vents to go around and there not permenant enough to form factories around. You'd esssentially be limited to cottage scale industry with everything made from hand. You'd never make it to space.
Kendall's right. Using underwater vents as forges, while possible, is rather unlikely. There would be little way of predicting it acurately, and I can't see any race evolving and using them as a forge.
Even if they did, there would still be no way to get into space.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
Once they reach a level of tech they are no longer confined to the water. They can build land ships and have their base of operations there. From there on they just follow the normal path of the tech tree.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Teaos wrote:Once they reach a level of tech they are no longer confined to the water. They can build land ships and have their base of operations there. From there on they just follow the normal path of the tech tree.
The problem is that a) they wouldn't reach that level of tech with the resources at hand and b) how would they would around on land if they've evolved in the sea? The only way that would work is if they evolved into amphibions, they'd spend more an more time out of the sea, and they'd ultimately become your typical land animal, be that reptillian, avian, or mamillian.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
