Thoughts from a latecomer (a.k.a., F you, Cameron)

[Captain Seafort]

At the end of the film, the Navi and remaining humans still control all of the tech left behind. From what I understand, that includes a lot of manufacturing equipment. Theoretically, they could expand that capacity, and at least put up a lot more of a fight.

Do they have the tools to build spacecraft? Do they have the right tools to build the tools to make the spacecraft? Do they have the right tools to make the tools to make the tools to make the spacecraft? And on and on, ad infinitum. I doubt it. It's a mining colony - they'll have the right tools to maintain and expand their existing infrastructure and support vehicles, but nowt much else. They also won't have the right range of skills on hand to construct a full industrial base from nothing - the experts in spacecraft design and construction will all be back on Earth.

With the Earth's entire biosphere devastated, how would stone-age humans, or even industrial-level humans survive on any meaningful level?

Define "any meaningful level". You specifically referred to extinction through misuse of resources. I'm pointing out that the worst that that could cause is the end of modern civilisation. Humanity (and life in general) is simply too tough to be wiped out by anything short of a K-T event.

[Tsukiyumi]

From what I understand about the background information, the Sterolithography plant was able to manufacture literally everything (from the guns to the equipment to the aircraft) the humans used on Pandora, with a few rare exceptions. Building more construction equipment isn't that much of a stretch, and it's at least plausible that they could build the Valkyrie shuttlecraft.

At the very least, they'd be able to build the same weapons and aircraft the humans used in the first movie.

Also, Jake says "only a few were chosen to stay", but there's no way to know how many. He must've been referring to more than just the two guys.

[Captain Seafort]

From what I understand about the background information, the Sterolithography plant was able to manufacture literally everything (from the guns to the equipment to the aircraft) the humans used on Pandora, with a few rare exceptions.

The exceptions being what? That notwithstanding, they're building in-atmosphere craft, not the interstellar spacecraft they'd need to go after Earth. They're also limited to what that one plant can put out - there's no reason whatsoever for the humans to have shipped in the industrial base needed to build more such plants.

Building more construction equipment isn't that much of a stretch

On the contrary - it's an enormous step, an even bigger one than adapting an aircraft factory to build spacecraft.

[Tsukiyumi]

From what I understand of the background info, the industrial base to build all of those things is indeed located on Pandora; they get almost all of the raw materials from the planet rather than shipping them in.

How is this relevant? Well, unless sterolithography has become somehow more difficult in the future, the same machinists who operate the machines also usually write the programs needed to build the parts, including designing their own parts on occasion, and making changes to existing designs. If they have even a couple of machinists in the "few" who were allowed to stay, they can design practically anything they have knowledge of, including additional construction equipment and at least orbital spacecraft.

I'm not saying "they could definitely do this". I'm saying it is at least possible.

[Captain Seafort]

From what I understand of the background info, the industrial base to build all of those things is indeed located on Pandora; they get almost all of the raw materials from the planet rather than shipping them in.

How is this relevant? Well, unless sterolithography has become somehow more difficult in the future, the same machinists who operate the machines also usually write the programs needed to build the parts, including designing their own parts on occasion, and making changes to existing designs. If they have even a couple of machinists in the "few" who were allowed to stay, they can design practically anything they have knowledge of, including additional construction equipment and at least orbital spacecraft.

I'm not saying "they could definitely do this". I'm saying it is at least possible.

You don't understand my point. I'm not disputing that they can produce existing designs from ore to finished product, I'm saying that they can't replicate the factory itself, or the tools they use to produce those vehicles. Modern production facilities are incredibly specialised, to the extent that even switching production from one model to another of the same aircraft (say F-15C to F-15E) would involve shutting it down for months to retool.

[Tsukiyumi]

That's a good point to a degree: as I said, any operator of that equipment would be able to write new code. That's just a normal thing in machining. This would be limited to the knowledge of the people available, of course, but as I said, it is at least possible.

Also, they should logically be able to reproduce the plant itself. The specs would be in the database for reference during repairs or maintenance. As would the Valkyrie specs.

[Sionnach Glic]

Even if the plant can indeed build anything they want, it still runs into quite a few problems.

Firstly, how are they even going to tell the machine what to make? I can't imagine it's a simple process to tell it to stop building power tools and start building surface to air missile launchers. Particularly since you've just evicted everyone who knew how to run it off-world.

And if you figure that out, how are they even going to feed the machine? It still needs raw materials to work with. Where are they going to get these? I'm sure there's a stockpile sitting around, but how long will that last? And once it's gone, how will they ever get more?

How will they keep the plant running? Something that complex can't be easy to maintain, and I doubt the Na'vi have a decent repairman hanging around.

How will they power it? None of the people left on the planet know how to run the base's power plant. That's a recipe for failure (if not catastrophic disaster) right there.

How will they feed the power plant?

How will they operate most of the stuff that the plant can make? Does Jake Sully know how to operate a SAM? How about piloting an aircraft? Operating a starship?

Similarly, how will they maintain the stuff?

Even ignoring all of the above, most of the stuff the plant can produce is still going to be useless to the Na'vi. Why? Because they're all designed for human operators. A Na'vi is never going to be able to pilot one of those gunships, simply because he'd be too big. So at best you've got a half dozen or so people, mostly civilians, who are able to operate what the plant makes.

Because of the above, for the plant to be of any actual use they'd need to know how to create new designs from scratch, then program that into the plant for it to manufacture. Good luck with that.

And even ignoring all the above, would the Na'vi even use it? We know that, initialy, the RDA tried to get on good terms with them, offering them medicine, electricity, roads, etc. The Na'vi politely told them to bugger off due to cultural reasons. I find it hard to imagine that the Na'vi would so willingly start using the RDA's abandoned equipment. Particularly when such equipment undoubtedly has the attatched stigma of being used to destroy their home and sacred sites.

[Sionnach Glic]

Oh, and another thing. Anything the plant can build is going to be limited by its size. While it could probably produce larger objects in bits and pieces, the Na'vi and friends aren't going to have the know-how to actually piece these bits together. And I doubt the plant can also make assembly manuals.

[Tsukiyumi]

Firstly, how are they even going to tell the machine what to make? I can't imagine it's a simple process to tell it to stop building power tools and start building surface to air missile launchers. Particularly since you've just evicted everyone who knew how to run it off-world.

Actually, it would be that simple. Just input a different program. Also, this scenario only works if they didn't get rid of all of the machinists. Even one guy could do it if the plant is mostly automated.

And if you figure that out, how are they even going to feed the machine? It still needs raw materials to work with. Where are they going to get these? I'm sure there's a stockpile sitting around, but how long will that last? And once it's gone, how will they ever get more?

I imagine they'd get them the same way they did before, only with Navi personnel.

How will they keep the plant running? Something that complex can't be easy to maintain, and I doubt the Na'vi have a decent repairman hanging around.

That's a good one, but the Navi seem to be adaptable and intelligent; they could be taught with time.

How will they power it? None of the people left on the planet know how to run the base's power plant. That's a recipe for failure (if not catastrophic disaster) right there.

How will they feed the power plant?

Also a good one. Again, we have to wonder how many people it took, and how many, if any of them stayed. If all of them left, game over. Otherwise, again, train the Navi.

How will they operate most of the stuff that the plant can make? Does Jake Sully know how to operate a SAM? How about piloting an aircraft? Operating a starship?

I could probably operate a SAM or an aircraft with a little practice; so could you. There's a reason they make military equipment "idiot-proof".

Even ignoring all of the above, most of the stuff the plant can produce is still going to be useless to the Na'vi. Why? Because they're all designed for human operators. A Na'vi is never going to be able to pilot one of those gunships, simply because he'd be too big. So at best you've got a half dozen or so people, mostly civilians, who are able to operate what the plant makes.

Untrue. The size difference isn't as drastic as it seems. I could drive a Yugo, even though it was apparently designed for and by midgets. Pull the seats out, and they'd definitely fit. Or, simply scale up the cockpit and controls slightly.

Because of the above, for the plant to be of any actual use they'd need to know how to create new designs from scratch, then program that into the plant for it to manufacture. Good luck with that.

Like I said, modern machinists regularly (as in, all the time) write their own programs, and modify existing designs. As long as you have a few good machinists, and a few people with knowledge of the equipment to be made, it would be a matter of trial and error.

And even ignoring all the above, would the Na'vi even use it? We know that, initialy, the RDA tried to get on good terms with them, offering them medicine, electricity, roads, etc. The Na'vi politely told them to bugger off due to cultural reasons. I find it hard to imagine that the Na'vi would so willingly start using the RDA's abandoned equipment. Particularly when such equipment undoubtedly has the attatched stigma of being used to destroy their home and sacred sites.

They were using the communications equipment in the final battle, and they seemed to have adapted quite a bit by the end. Besides, Jake is the clan leader at the end of the film; he'd certainly be able to convince most of them to use whatever means available to survive, and the other clans respected him enough to listen as well.

Again, this is all speculative, but it's certainly not as impossible as people seem to think.

Oh, and another thing. Anything the plant can build is going to be limited by its size. While it could probably produce larger objects in bits and pieces, the Na'vi and friends aren't going to have the know-how to actually piece these bits together. And I doubt the plant can also make assembly manuals.

I don't see why not. Modern business software has training modes. The necessary info should be in the database.

[Tyyr]

Actually, it would be that simple. Just input a different program. Also, this scenario only works if they didn't get rid of all of the machinists. Even one guy could do it if the plant is mostly automated.

If they didn't throw that guy off the planet. They talked about throwing everyone off but the scientists.

I imagine they'd get them the same way they did before, only with Navi personnel.

They just sort of fought a war about what assholes the humans for doing just that. I have my doubts that the Nav'i would just start mining again.

That's a good one, but the Navi seem to be adaptable and intelligent; they could be taught with time.

I seriously doubt that. The Nav'i are a stone age civilization. They have absolutely no frame of reference for dealing with anything more technically advanced than tanned hides, knapped flint, and twine. Without some kind of technical education they best you're going to be able to do is teach them, "When I call you on the radio turn this knob." There are plenty of places in the world where you have people far more advanced than the Nav'i, like rural India, who are brought in to work in something like a power plant. You can't teach them how to do anything much more complex than turning a valve when told to. It's not that they're stupid it's that they literally have absolutely no frame of reference for advanced thermodynamics and you can't teach them at the technical level necessary to be useful because they have no mathematical or scientific background and you literally have to start from square one with them.

I could probably operate a SAM or an aircraft with a little practice; so could you. There's a reason they make military equipment "idiot-proof".

SAM maybe, but "idiot-proof"? Hardly. The guys who operate things like SAMs attend technical training on it for months before they are stuck on a crew. Aircraft, I'm going to assume you're using hyperbole because if you think you could fly a helicopter or aircraft with a little practice that's going to be natural selection in action.

Untrue. The size difference isn't as drastic as it seems. I could drive a Yugo, even though it was apparently designed for and by midgets. Pull the seats out, and they'd definitely fit. Or, simply scale up the cockpit and controls slightly.

No, very true. The size difference is enourmous. The average Nav't looks to be about 10 feet tall. The average human is slightly less than 6. Given that most human centric designs are for people within the 95th percentile no Nav'i is going to be able to just "squeeze" into a cockpit. Look at how cramped Neytiri was in the trailer when she climbed into rescue Jake. She was bent over in half like she was in a tunnel. You think she's going to fit a chopper cockpit? The Nav'i filled the rear of the cargo choppers. As for scaling up? Sorry, who's going to do that? The engineer who designed the thing in the first place is back on earth. The stereolithography plant isn't made to design new things, just reproduce what it already knows how to make.

Like I said, modern machinists regularly (as in, all the time) write their own programs, and modify existing designs. As long as you have a few good machinists, and a few people with knowledge of the equipment to be made, it would be a matter of trial and error.

If you could convince those people to stay. Given that they'd be part of the faction that brought total economic ruin to the entire planet, likely labeled terrorists, and NEVER collect any of the pay they were supposed to get for their trip good luck with that.

I don't see why not. Modern business software has training modes. The necessary info should be in the database.

Yep, training that was likely given on Earth. Why train people on site? Given the tremendous expense of sending someone to Pandora why the hell would they not be fully ready to go when they land? I doubt they train much on site, certainly not basic skills like welding or assembly. There is some training on our site but it's not automated. There's some textbooks but you still need competent people to handle the training and those being trained have basic skills coming into the job.

I've given a lot of consideration to the Nav'i's situation based off the background info and what's in the movie. They're fucked, full stop. You can't skip eight millenia of technological development with a few pieces of machinery left laying around.