If Star Trek were to introduce another massive Empire...

[Teaos]

We've made it into space because there was an evolutionary benefit to creating fire and other technologies; if there hadn't been, we wouldn't.

And thats your only arguement. Just because we don't know how doesn't mean it can't happen.

[Sionnach Glic]

Can you come up with an advantageous alternative to electricity or fire underwater? You need certain things before you can get space travel.

Apart from the fact we are sitting here proving it wrong who would of though a bunch of monkeys like us would make it to space?

I would have. The simple fact they have inteligence, a social structure, the ability to hold something, the ability to discover fire and electricity and a tonne of other things would lead anyone to the conclusion that monkeys could develope space travel. Aquatic species meet some of these requirements, but they miss out on some of the more important ones.

Saying it could happen if we weren't so narrow minded is just hand waving the issue away.

[Reliant121]

Just out of interest, why do you need fire? Does it have any variance on developing warp drive? Just because we found out how to make fire doesn't mean that without that knowledge, we cant make the atomic bomb? Or, cure cancer.

And anyway, did not the shark evolve from a stupid sea creature to a efficient, clever, cunning and destructive killing machine?

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"Revenge is a dish best served cold. It is very cold... in space" Khan noonien singh

[I Am Spartacus]

Just out of interest, why do you need fire? Does it have any variance on developing warp drive? Just because we found out how to make fire doesn't mean that without that knowledge, we cant make the atomic bomb? Or, cure cancer.

And anyway, did not the shark evolve from a stupid sea creature to a efficient, clever, cunning and destructive killing machine?

Fire was the basis of all technology. We wouldn't have developed the printing press, television, or aviation without it. You may as well ask how being able to breathe has any bearing on developing automobiles.

And the shark may be more intelligent than previously, but it hasn't developed any kind of technology. Dolphins are perfectly intelligent, and I've yet to see them use sticks or stones.

[Mikey]

That's got nothing to do with intelligence - sharks don't use sticks and stones because they've got no thumbs. Chimps aren't building any spacecraft, but they use tools... without domesticating fire.

[Sionnach Glic]

Chimps use sticks and stones as tools, of course they haven't domesticated fire yet. What we're saying is that you need cetain things to get into space, fire, electricity etc. Which is why an aquatic species (such as sharks or dolphins) getting into space is very unlikely.

[Teaos]

The fact they can't manipulate tools is the biggest problem they have. An Aquatic species would need to be able to use tools first and foremost. Everything after that is impossible to say.

[Monroe]

Chimps use sticks and stones as tools, of course they haven't domesticated fire yet. What we're saying is that you need cetain things to get into space, fire, electricity etc. Which is why an aquatic species (such as sharks or dolphins) getting into space is very unlikely.

Still, even if it was 1/10,000 odds there would still be a very likely chance that one would get into space. And of course there is the amphibian and borrowed technology ideas already discussed.

[Bryan Moore]

Read My Lips: No New Empires. Thus, moot point.

[Captain Peabody]

Yeah, I've always been fascinated by the idea of a totally Aquatic species...but I have to say I don't think the Star Trek galaxy needs yet another empire. Anyway, I don't know why some people are saying electricity would be impossible for an Aquatic species; sure, it would take some doing, but not nearly as much as we expend on some of our fancy high-tech gadgets today. As for fire, they would likely be able to get around it fairly easily. Anyway, whether it's accurate or not, an Aquatic species would still be cool....just not an uber-powerful, extra-Galactic Empire-ruling species.

[Bryan Moore]

Okay, okay, I'll cave. A non-carbon based lifeform from within the galaxy's core, used to high radiation, high temperatures, etc. That's the ONLY feasible empire/major species that would make sense. Any other spot, even if we haven't seen the particular race, we'd have heard about them, even if they were deep on the opposite ends of Alpha/Beta quadrants or in the Gamma. We can essentially rule out much of Delta due to Voyager plus Seven of Nine's experiences as a Borg. Inner core systems seem to be all that's left. Not that I wish to see it.

[I Am Spartacus]

That's got nothing to do with intelligence - sharks don't use sticks and stones because they've got no thumbs. Chimps aren't building any spacecraft, but they use tools... without domesticating fire.

Because the don't need to. A species only develops technology when it presents an evolutionary benefit to do so. When they can survive and/or thrive without any kind of technology, they don't develop any, even just using sticks. And one day, perhaps in millions of years barring human interference, chimps will indeed domesticate fire.

[Monroe]

Okay, okay, I'll cave. A non-carbon based lifeform from within the galaxy's core, used to high radiation, high temperatures, etc. That's the ONLY feasible empire/major species that would make sense. Any other spot, even if we haven't seen the particular race, we'd have heard about them, even if they were deep on the opposite ends of Alpha/Beta quadrants or in the Gamma. We can essentially rule out much of Delta due to Voyager plus Seven of Nine's experiences as a Borg. Inner core systems seem to be all that's left. Not that I wish to see it.

Going back to that game Acendency I brought up earlier there was a silicon based life form from a different universe that sought to purify the galaxy. Be cool to have something like that.

There's going to have to be new enemies if there's a new Star Trek show. The latest incarnation even had new Empires and threats like the Xindi and Suluban. There has to be new threats in a show otherwise it won't keep non trekies entertained. Its simple economics and entertainment. You want you show to do well you don't offer the same stuff over and over again you need spice.

[Teaos]

They dont need a new one for that to work. Just turn the Romulans into a real threat. We got the advanced weapons from voyager let the same thing or something similar happen to them. Have the Tholians and Breen form and alliance against us. They dont need a new empire when they have other options to use.

[Sionnach Glic]

Still, even if it was 1/10,000 odds there would still be a very likely chance that one would get into space. And of course there is the amphibian and borrowed technology ideas already discussed.

1/10,000 odds for what?

And as I stated earlier, the only way for it to work would be to have an amphibious race or have another race give them the technology.

. Anyway, I don't know why some people are saying electricity would be impossible for an Aquatic species; sure, it would take some doing, but not nearly as much as we expend on some of our fancy high-tech gadgets today.

No one is saying its imposible for them to use it. We're saying its very unlikely they'd ever even discover it unless it was introduced to them.
Its a bit difficult to invent something if it instantly fries everything around it.