History of Starfleet
- Victory is Life
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History of Starfleet
I wonder, since the birth of The Federation, and beyond, how much influence Section 31 has had on the regional and even outside 'goings on' in the AQ and BQ, how much effect that they have had on Starfleet's development, culturally, militarily, etc. I wonder if they are in collusion with operatives from the Future the likes of Daniels from ENT, and if they have influenced people like Admiral Cartwright's anti-Klingon alliance camp from TUDC, or people like Benjamin Maxwell, Admiral Leyton from paradise lost, Norah Satie, etc, etc. And where was section 31 during the whole Obsidian Order/Prometheus incident, and TNG Invasion? I believe there is more than meets the eye with Section 31, alot more.
"You may win this war, Commander, but I promise you, by the time it's over, you will have lost so many ships, so many lives, that your "victory" will taste as bitter as defeat."
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Re: History of Starfleet
It's integral to the nature of an organization like S31 to have "more than meets the eye." The whole point of a clandestine organization is to have very little meet the eye at all. I don't think that there will ever be a way to tell the scope of S31's influence on Starfleet or the UFP at large; offhand, though, I'd say relatively little - despite whatever influence S31 may have had, Starfleet continues to look at the galaxy through hippie-dippy, peacenik, rose-colored glasses.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
- Captain Seafort
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Re: History of Starfleet
Since when were S31 made up of giant robots?Mikey wrote:It's integral to the nature of an organization like S31 to have "more than meets the eye."
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Re: History of Starfleet
Well, that's a hell of a mindbender you've posed there, Victory. One we have no cannon means of solving, but since this is a mental excercise I'll go with it. I can easily see alot of places where S31 could have been involved, from the loss of the USS Drake (Arsenel of Freedom) going after that damned weapons system, to the grand murder plot in TUC. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that at least one member of the conspiricy (I'd GUESS Col. West) was acutally a standing member of S31.
The parasitic invasion, I'd guess they didn't know about, or respond too, since that would have violated their charter totally. And here's a thought....we KNOW that as of Turnabout Intruder, going to Talos IV still held the death penalty. Do you suppose that is where they're base is?
Wow....this is food for conspericy theory nuts huh?
The parasitic invasion, I'd guess they didn't know about, or respond too, since that would have violated their charter totally. And here's a thought....we KNOW that as of Turnabout Intruder, going to Talos IV still held the death penalty. Do you suppose that is where they're base is?
Wow....this is food for conspericy theory nuts huh?
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They look like Phyllis Diller,
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the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
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Re: History of Starfleet
See? Like I said - there's a lot you don't know abut them.Captain Seafort wrote:Since when were S31 made up of giant robots?Mikey wrote:It's integral to the nature of an organization like S31 to have "more than meets the eye."
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Re: History of Starfleet
Mikey wrote:It's integral to the nature of an organization like S31 to have "more than meets the eye." The whole point of a clandestine organization is to have very little meet the eye at all. I don't think that there will ever be a way to tell the scope of S31's influence on Starfleet or the UFP at large; offhand, though, I'd say relatively little - despite whatever influence S31 may have had, Starfleet continues to look at the galaxy through hippie-dippy, peacenik, rose-colored glasses.
Do you suppose S31 was behind the space hippies?????????????
They say that in the Army,
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
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Re: History of Starfleet
Absolutely. If the CIA could conduct their LSD experiments, why not S31?
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
- Victory is Life
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Re: History of Starfleet
Really though...The situation with the Prometheus, stolen by the Obsidian Order? One of Starfleets most advanced and dangerous ships, taken from right under their noses. Any respectable intelligence agency (S31) should have been all over that. That was just SHEER incompetence.
"You may win this war, Commander, but I promise you, by the time it's over, you will have lost so many ships, so many lives, that your "victory" will taste as bitter as defeat."
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Re: History of Starfleet
@ Mikey: That episode suddenly makes so much more sense!
@Victory: True....but no agency can be everywhere and know about everything going on at once.
@Victory: True....but no agency can be everywhere and know about everything going on at once.
They say that in the Army,
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
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Re: History of Starfleet
Even the best fuck up sometimes. 45 minutes anyone?Victory is Life wrote:Any respectable intelligence agency (S31) should have been all over that. That was just SHEER incompetence.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
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Re: History of Starfleet
True, and even more to the point - why? I wouldn't blame the CIA for a failure of the NSA, why would I blame S31 for a failure of Starfleet R&D?Captain Seafort wrote:Even the best f**k up sometimes. 45 minutes anyone?Victory is Life wrote:Any respectable intelligence agency (S31) should have been all over that. That was just SHEER incompetence.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
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Re: History of Starfleet
Remember though, S31 isn't an intelligence agency in the same sense of the CIA or the like. They don't seem to care much about anything that isn't a threat to the federation as a whole. Add in that they don't even officially exist, and I see no reason they should have been in place to stop that theft. That's a matter for SF security.
- Victory is Life
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Re: History of Starfleet
Excerpted from Memory Beta
"In 2293, Admiral Cartwright was part of a conspiracy to assassinate Klingon Chancellor Gorkon, Son of Toq, and Federation President Ra-ghoratreii in collusion with Klingon General Chang, Romulan Ambassador Nanclus, Federation Starfleet Colonel Patrick West, Lieutenant Valeris, Yeomen Burke and Samno, the commandant of Rura Penthe and a prisoner there named Martia. The conspiracy's goal was to undermine the peace process and ignite a war between the Empire and the Federation that each side's members in the conspiracy believed their nation destined to win. (TOS movie: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country)
Given Cartwright's prior history with Section 31, some have speculated that this was also a Section 31 operation, although no evidence has surfaced to confirm this. "
Interesting...I'm not the only one who thinks Admiral Cartwright was involved in section 31. Come to think of it, Doesn't Brock Pete---er I mean, Admiral Cartwright bear an unbelievably striking resemblance to Joseph Sisko?!?! OMFG!!! CONSPIRACY!!! It has SOMETHING to do with the founders, and the reverse vampires, OMG!! We are through the looking glass people!
Seriously though, on the subject of the Undiscovered Country...Wow, Colonel West kicks ass "Then quite frankly Mr. President, we can clean their chronometers" Badass...
"In 2293, Admiral Cartwright was part of a conspiracy to assassinate Klingon Chancellor Gorkon, Son of Toq, and Federation President Ra-ghoratreii in collusion with Klingon General Chang, Romulan Ambassador Nanclus, Federation Starfleet Colonel Patrick West, Lieutenant Valeris, Yeomen Burke and Samno, the commandant of Rura Penthe and a prisoner there named Martia. The conspiracy's goal was to undermine the peace process and ignite a war between the Empire and the Federation that each side's members in the conspiracy believed their nation destined to win. (TOS movie: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country)
Given Cartwright's prior history with Section 31, some have speculated that this was also a Section 31 operation, although no evidence has surfaced to confirm this. "
Interesting...I'm not the only one who thinks Admiral Cartwright was involved in section 31. Come to think of it, Doesn't Brock Pete---er I mean, Admiral Cartwright bear an unbelievably striking resemblance to Joseph Sisko?!?! OMFG!!! CONSPIRACY!!! It has SOMETHING to do with the founders, and the reverse vampires, OMG!! We are through the looking glass people!
Seriously though, on the subject of the Undiscovered Country...Wow, Colonel West kicks ass "Then quite frankly Mr. President, we can clean their chronometers" Badass...
"You may win this war, Commander, but I promise you, by the time it's over, you will have lost so many ships, so many lives, that your "victory" will taste as bitter as defeat."
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Re: History of Starfleet
What gives you that idea? In many ways the CIA is the perfect analogy, given their tendency towards action rather than just intelligence gathering.Lighthawk wrote:Remember though, S31 isn't an intelligence agency in the same sense of the CIA or the like.
MB is specifically non-canon.Victory is Life wrote:Excerpted from Memory Beta
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
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Re: History of Starfleet
Exactly. S31 can't be held to task for an incident which was completely outside their purview.Lighthawk wrote:Remember though, S31 isn't an intelligence agency in the same sense of the CIA or the like. They don't seem to care much about anything that isn't a threat to the federation as a whole. Add in that they don't even officially exist, and I see no reason they should have been in place to stop that theft. That's a matter for SF security.
Ummm.... OK. And... ?Victory is Life wrote:Excerpted from Memory Beta
"In 2293, Admiral Cartwright was part of a conspiracy to assassinate Klingon Chancellor Gorkon, Son of Toq, and Federation President Ra-ghoratreii in collusion with Klingon General Chang, Romulan Ambassador Nanclus, Federation Starfleet Colonel Patrick West, Lieutenant Valeris, Yeomen Burke and Samno, the commandant of Rura Penthe and a prisoner there named Martia. The conspiracy's goal was to undermine the peace process and ignite a war between the Empire and the Federation that each side's members in the conspiracy believed their nation destined to win. (TOS movie: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country)
Given Cartwright's prior history with Section 31, some have speculated that this was also a Section 31 operation, although no evidence has surfaced to confirm this. "
Interesting...I'm not the only one who thinks Admiral Cartwright was involved in section 31.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer