BluRay Extras

[Atekimogus]

The Ent episode that had them getting letters from school kids. I'm pretty sure Tucker said they turned their waste into boots.

Yeah, I believe is exact words were "boots or anything else".

Ah, now the Delta Flyer beeing shit finallly makes sense:)

But seriously, one has to wonder how advanced their replicator systems really are. Altough I am ok with that they still need raw material to operate I must admit that this not the impression at all I got from the shows. Watching only TNG onward (maybe with skipping the few were you get a better idea) I had the impression that a replicator transforms energy to matter and vice versa with no raw material involved, just energy.

No idea if this is even a valid physical concept but then they also use warp drive, so no big deal imho:)

[Mark]

It reorganizes matter, similar to a transporter. They take bulk matter, dematerialize it, run it through some techno babble system that rearranges the molecular structure. Then it re materializes into whatever it needs to be.

[Captain Seafort]

Watching only TNG onward (maybe with skipping the few were you get a better idea) I had the impression that a replicator transforms energy to matter and vice versa with no raw material involved, just energy.

If that were the case, then they shouldn't have problems replicating stuff. However, the E-D was repeatedly on missions carrying vital supplies around the Federation, and on at least one occasion was unable to replicate blood (something we will probably be able to do in a few decades at most).

[Mikey]

Simply because what is going to be reduced in size like cpu's and internal network already uses up only a fraction of space and is furthermore implemented in casings you can't reduce, because otherwise wou wouldn't be able to operate. If you go on long term missions into deep space with only few supplies deliverable, you need lots of space for food-storage (and food isn't replicated in this era, cause otherwise the trouble with tribble has an existing problem), water storage and recycling, fuel storage (the ship still needs Hydrogen in some form and the bussard collectors only provide an increase in the mpg value).

And unrealistic not in terms of current science, but on requirements from a present point of view to meet the specs to use the science (like energy needed to operate a warp drive).

Additionally - as often seen - Starfleet often runs supply missions to its colonies with its MP-ships. Starfleets proudest ships are a combination of military, scientific and transportation vessel. To fulfill this the have to be larger than e.g. klingon ships of similar power which have a distinctive purpose like combat without science and transportation. And in an expected war with the Romulans you need space for troops and additional weaponry (and i never saw them shrinking a phaser to the size of a thumbnail).

So I think the big E is a good E for it lets the ship fulfill its many purposes without any doubt that it may not have the accomodation to fulfill them.

Great - however, if we go by this logic then all the TOS-TNG-DS9-VOY timeline ships were incapable of performing a mission. This is obviously not so.

[Avatar2312]

No. Just TOS.

I find a 300m ship, of which half is actually just reactors and engines with over 400 crew and single-person quarters (where there others?) too overcrowded to perform the range of missions shown. But who cares about that in the 70s

E-D was many times larger and just had 2,5 times the crew, despite having more advanced technologies to reduce the amount of supply space required.

Voyager was larger and had only one third of the crew, despite having more advanced technologies to reduce the amount of supply space required.

DS9... well the station was definetly many times larger (also in volume) than the E. And had a crew about the same size, despite not needing a warp core and everything around it. Just a fusion reactor. The Defiant is hard to tell... because it grows and shrinks as it pleases. Given DITL-firgures it is actually a good example why the TOS-E wouldn't actually be able to perform as shown. 170m and just 50 crew, but large powerplant and advanced weaponry, it still gives more extra-space than TOS-E from a relativistic p.o.v. but is not able to undergo large supply-missions or accomodate a diplomatic delegation in a formally manner.

[stitch626]

You would be wrong about TOS then.
Nowhere near half of the ship was reactors and engines. And a crew of 400 is fine for a ship that size. And the only quarters we saw were those of high ranking officers (i.e. Kirk and Spock... I don't think there were any others shown), the enlisted/low officers could easily have been 2 or more to a room.

[Mikey]

half is actually just reactors and engines

Source?

400 crew and single-person quarters

You're basing an assumption about the entire crew quartering on the shots of a captain's quarters. This is obtusely fallacious.

too overcrowded to perform the range of missions shown.

Yeah, but - and this is a big one - it did perform the range of missions shown, well enough to become the most famous ship and crew in the history of Starfleet. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, that's what happened in canon.

E-D was many times larger and just had 2,5 times the crew, despite having more advanced technologies to reduce the amount of supply space required.

Voyager was larger and had only one third of the crew, despite having more advanced technologies to reduce the amount of supply space required.

DS9... well the station was definetly many times larger (also in volume) than the E. And had a crew about the same size, despite not needing a warp core and everything around it. Just a fusion reactor. The Defiant is hard to tell... because it grows and shrinks as it pleases.

What the hell? I was talking about the trend of ship sizes in the original timeline versus the same trend in the Abramsverse... your straw tactic of pretending that references to a particular ship from each franchise are relevant is ludicrous.

[Avatar2312]

Source?

A guess, an estimation, an assumption... take your pick

You're basing an assumption about the entire crew quartering on the shots of a captain's quarters. This is obtusely fallacious.

No. Ensign Garrowick also had a one-person quarter, despite being the lowest ranking officer. And if you read the rest, I put a question in brackets... apparently not enough for the narrow-eyed.

Yeah, but - and this is a big one - it did perform the range of missions shown, well enough to become the most famous ship and crew in the history of Starfleet. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, that's what happened in canon.

The discussion was not about if it actually happened, but if Abrams Enterprise is more realistic than the old one in meeting the requirements for THE mission a starfleet vessel has to accomplish.

What the hell? I was talking about the trend of ship sizes in the original timeline versus the same trend in the Abramsverse... your straw tactic of pretending that references to a particular ship from each franchise are relevant is ludicrous.

You threw in the other series, not me. I remind you:
"Great - however, if we go by this logic then all the TOS-TNG-DS9-VOY timeline ships were incapable of performing a mission..."
Despite it is not about a particular mission, but about the different kinds of.

[Mikey]

A guess, an estimation, an assumption... take your pick

Not an estimation, as that term implies a factual basis.

I put a question in brackets... apparently not enough for the narrow-eyed.

Yet the fact that you included a question didn't dissuade you from your baseless assumption.

The discussion was not about if it actually happened, but if Abrams Enterprise is more realistic than the old one in meeting the requirements for THE mission a starfleet vessel has to accomplish.

Then there's nothing at all to discuss. Realism is no factor at all in anything 'Trek. You said ships need to be neo-E sized to accomplish their missions - this is patently false, based on the evidence of succesful missions by ships of the original timeline.

You threw in the other series, not me. I remind you:
"Great - however, if we go by this logic then all the TOS-TNG-DS9-VOY timeline ships were incapable of performing a mission..."

Please do me the favor of reading me before you quote me. I will repeat the above, with added emphasis on the part you missed:
"Great - however, if we go by this logic then all the TOS-TNG-DS9-VOY timeline ships were incapable of performing a mission..."

See? This is a reference to the "preferred" timeline as opposed to the Abramsverse. And further, none of this repudiates the fact that your attempt to pretend that I referenced particular individual ships from each of those franchises is a complete strawman.

[Mark]

Avatar wrote:
No. Ensign Garrowick also had a one-person quarter, despite being the lowest ranking officer. And if you read the rest, I put a question in brackets... apparently not enough for the narrow-eyed.

This is actually a very good point. However, I DO have a couple ideas to explain it.

First, please correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't seen this ep in years, wasn't Garrovick the Security Chief?

In the modern Navy AFAIK, even junior officers get their own small state room. Perhaps ALL officers have their own rooms and the crew (those guys in coveralls) live in bunkrooms or dorms.

Or, last but not least, hotbunking wouldn't be unknown either.



Please keep in mind that Gene's Enterprise was the most advanced ship ever built by the Federation. She was designed as a long term explorer with unmatched defensive capabilities PLUS 11 state of the art labs. We've seen shuttles with much less internal volume house appropriate sized engines (warp, impulse, and thrusters). So while the original Ent might be a tight fit with little room left over for ameneties such as a phaser range, fencing arena, an ambo-jitsu ring, or even a civillian run rec lounge, it had enough room for all of its mission specific areas.

[Captain Seafort]

So while the original Ent might be a tight fit with little room left over for ameneties such as a phaser range, fencing arena, an ambo-jitsu ring, or even a civillian run rec lounge, it had enough room for all of its mission specific areas.

I doubt she's even a tight fit - the E-nil had a volume of about 210,000 m^3, while the Nimitz class is about 390,000 m^3. However, while the E-nil is a little over half the size, she only carries a couple of shuttles instead of 70 - 80 aircraft, and has a crew of 430 instead of over six thousand. There's bags of room of the crew.

[Mark]

Granted, however we also see that they don't cram personel in like sardines either. There seems to be quite a bit of individual living space as well, which I imagine takes up a decent amount of room