Okay, fair pointNo, Hera was the Mitochondrian Eve; the individual from which the majority of today's humans can trace their ancestry to. The others presumably weren't as succesful, and any tribes or families they started died off over the generations.
I never said they would keep running forever. But they provide an opportunity for the colony to generate independent sources of power and start new industries. We know the ships have run for four years now, there is no telling how much longer they could runFor how long? If they run out of fuel, just how long can they keep the ships running for? Can they even keep the ships running until that point at all?
And I say you are wrong. Like it was said by at least one other, they are a source of shelter if anything else. They are also a source of power. Finally, they are a physical link to where Mankind came from.The ships were of no practical use. They could do nothing with them, other than use them as a form of transportation. Presumably they stripped out anything of use before sending them all into the sun. As such, it'd be pointless having a bunch of empty hulls drifting around up there.
I answered that one already. With raptors they could find minerals, and with explosives they could mine them. Water can be used in some cases to strip mine. Heavy equipment is useful in mining but not critical. Mankind has been mining with explosives for at least 150 years, at least they have in the western world.Really? And how would they mine materials? How would they process fuel? Do they even know how to do that any more?
The vast majority of their equipment was lost back on New Caprica. They simply didn't have the stuff required to build anything more than a giant tent city.
Also, when it comes to technological innovation think about this; plastics have been around since the nineteenth century, bakelite came in the early twentieth century. There is also ceramics. With the creation of plastics and ceramics you have the possibility of creating circuit boards. With the information from Galactica and other ship's databanks (I would assume there is a lot since the secretary of education was the president) you have the building blocks of modern technology. And with the raptors you can go anywhere on this lush planet to look for the raw materials needed.
Again, shelter and power. Not indefinitely, but long enough to give them a change to rebuild.How? Just what can they (the ships) be used for?
In regards to the bow an arrow issue, they might be able to figure out how to use the things. But making good bows and arrows is pretty difficult. Although with synthetic materials-like ones from the ships-it might be easier...
I don't buy it. The Cylons are still out there. No matter what Adama says about Cavil being dead there is still the knowledge they may come back. And technology was not evil. Technology kept them alive for four years. They already knew what roughing was like on New Caprica and would be aware that things could get bad. Based on prior experience-both with the Cylons and New Caprica-people would want the security of the ships.Why?
They had their homeworlds wiped out by machines they'd created.
They'd been hunted across space by these machines.
They'd been trapped in the cramped and overcrowded confines of their ships, many of which were not designed to hold large amounts of people for long periods of time.
They'd tried rebuilding their civilisation, only to have it wiped out again and suffer the loss of most of their remaining equipment.
Back again to being hunted.
Back again to being stuck on the ships.
They get to Earth, the place they'd been promised they'd finaly be safe, and they find it had been nuked. By the machines they'd created.
Back to the ships.
Back to being hunted.
They have other humans destroying the fleet from within, including a mutiny among the crew of Galactica, the one ship they'd always thought would be a safe haven.
They have their leaders wiped out due to political power grabs.
Then they find a new planet. This one is beautiful, with lush fields, plentiful food, fauna in abundance, and lots of fresh water. To them, it's paradise. It's the promised land they'd been searching for over the past four years.
With all the s**t that went on, it'd be pretty much impossible to avoid massive anti-technology sentiments from becoming rampant among the surviving members of the fleet. Add in a bunch of idealists yapping about how great it would be to get back to the basics, and I don't find it at all surprising that they collectively went "You know what? Frak this civilisation s**t. Let's go and build farms and hunt animals and we'll be safe from that ever happening again."
Sure, within a few months they were all probably kicking themselves for doing that. But I don't find it at all surprising.
Yes, admittedly. Through no ability for humans to stop the cycle, only by sheer chance. What a wonderful message.The humans and cylons both survived in the form of Hera, and thus as us.
And Six implied at the end that the cycle may very well be broken (though that's just from sheer chance, admittedly).
You are just speculating and have no basis for this. This was never explained in the series. No one even said something like "They were a lot tougher when they attacked Galactica". You are just making excuses for the writers.The cylons were shown to have a pretty s**t industrial base. They had The Colony, and that seemed to be it. As more and more Centurions got destroyed, they may well have started building them with sub-standard materials to get larger quantities available. The presence of survivors and resistance movements on the Colonies would have played a major part in this. It's all well and good having a million or so nearly indestructable soldiers, but when you need billions to properly
scour and secure the worlds from surviving humans, then you'll have to sacrafice quality for quantity.
And I failed to see where your thinking about the industrial base is coming from, considering how many base stars they had, and how many fighters they were able to field.
Again, you have no basis for this. Besides, without a more advanced technological base (i.e. metallurgical labs) creating better rounds would be extremely difficult.Another factor is that the Colonials would have had time to develop better rounds for dealing with cylons by then. By the start of the war, they had no idea what the new centurions were like. It doesn't surprise me that their guns were s**t at countering them initialy. As their intel on them grew and they captured parts of damaged centurions for study (the failed boarding attempt in Season 2 would have been a major factor in this) they would have been able to figure out how to design better bullets to kill them with.
Basicaly, it's a combo of greater intel on behalf of the Colonials, and the cylons deciding the choose quantity over quality.
At least you admit that element of the series was utter crap.What the Cylons' plan was? Oh, that's right, I have to watch an entirely different series for that.
Yeah, the cylons hadn't a f***ing clue what they were doing. There was no great plan, which is why they probably removed that segment for Season 4. I can only assume the plan reffered to their attempted destruction of humanity.
But based on what we saw on Cobol there are far more effective ways of leaving messages than engravings. Lee doomed Mankind to possibly repeating themselves-and by dooming millions upon millions of descedants-to lives of hardship and misery.Maybe they did try. Maybe they left engravings, or something. Maybe that's why their mythology is similar to ancient Greece's. In the end, their attempt simply didn't work.
Those facilities could have been moved planetside. And it is true that many-if not all-of the drugs were used up, but by using raptors and other ships searches for plants to employ as replacements would have been easier. Hell, how many generations would have passed before people forgot to boil their medical instruments before operating? Because you know in this new world the books will decay, knowledge will be forgotten, and without knowing how to make paper and ink peopleAs opposed to the slow death of dealing with going primitive. You have a point about there being farmers in the fleet, but without modern medical technology these people are in for a bleak future.
Exactly what medical tech do they have? Most of those facilities were on Galactica, which was completely unsafe to use by that point. Most of their medicine and drugs would have been used up. They've no way of either recreating those facilities or making any more medicines or drugs.
aren't going to be able to write it down.
And I don't know how many times I need to say this, but I never said they had to leave Earth. The ships would be parked on the planet like we saw they were on New Caprica. Are you even reading what I write? Am I wasting my time with you?Sure, they might die of diesease down on New Earth, but that's far preferable to dying of diesease on a crowded, dilapidated starship. Hell, it could even be argued that not having humans packed into ships with recycled air systems would make it less likely for dieseases to spread.
Okay, once more. The ships provide power. Enough power so that alternatives could be found later on (i.e. a hydroelectric dam for that nice river. Even water wheel technology, where modern industry began, would be good. And I didn't see a river on New Caprica for the colonists to use so they already have a leg up on the old colony). They provide shelter. Enough shelter so that eventually larger structures could be formed. They could have more than a tent city because they have lumber nearby. With proper facilities-like a simple kiln-they could start producing bricks. This stuff is elementary science.Yes, a new city. How does that translate into them being able to rebuild their civilisation? The only indication we got of any plans was Lampkin commenting that a nearby river would be the best place to start building stuff. That doesn't mean it was going to be anything better than a giant tent and log cabin city.
You wear space suits while you dismantle it. You use the other ships to transport it to the surface. Tyrol and the others had torches. You can also use explosives. With someone like the chief in charge you can safely rip away chunks of the ship for salvage.And how are you going to get these materials? You've nothing to tear of chunks of the hull with. You can't go inside the ship and start taking it apart from the inside out in case it falls apart and kills you. Short of crashing the ship onto the planet, there was no way for them to get anything that was bolted down from it.
You are such a pessimist. You are absolutely certain that there is no way at all these people can salvage anything from Galactica. I say human beings are tough and innovative, and if there is a way to salvage Galactica's raw materials they would have found it.
Lathes, drills, and the like certainly could. But that stuff needs power to operate. Like power from a ship.How? Can the facilities actualy be removed from the ship?
Transfer them to the other ships, land the other ships.How are you going to get them down below if they can? They can hardly fit them on Raptors.
Not a perfect solution, but it might be possible. But my solution works, too.Short of dismantling them into their tiny individual components, loading them on Raptors, and rebuilding them back on the surface (which they may very well now have the knowledge to do) those shops were staying on the Galactica.
A fair point. But we also saw how the Chief could think outside the box when he had too, as when he came up with a way to save Galactica. The Chief was a smart guy. And we have the other members of the crew to help. And the rest of the citizens. If you are so big about there being farmers I would imagine there are a few mechanics in the fleet as well that kept those ships going.Ships have engines, perhaps some of the fighters could have been dismantled. We saw the chief build a stealth fighter from scratch so innovation was nothing new to these people.
Chief was also an expert on fixing and rebuilding fighters. He would have had the experience and know-how to design and build a new one, and even then it took other crewmembers chipping in with their own bits of knowledge (Dee's comment that the Chief hadn't a clue about how to get the comms working being a nice example) to get it finaly built. Does that mean he can build, say, a combine harvester? A tractor? Car? No, not necessarily.
Baltar was in charge. It was a harsher planet. No, it is not clear that an attempt would have failed.When they were stuck on New Caprica they didn't have that stuff after a whole year. What makes you think they'll do any better off with most of their equipment gone, and their ships falling apart? It's rather clear that any attempt to rebuild civilisation would have just ended in failure.
But if one settlement is in trouble how can the others help it? Without communications how can they call for help? You have a point about Ireland not having the resources, but with settlements being cut off from one another you are basically dooming them. Look at modern society; when one group of people is in trouble they can be airlifted out, or aid brought in.Presumably that's why they were spread out across the planet in smaller groups, rather than staying in one large settlement. Also, they have plenty of wildlife that can easily be hunted and killed if necessary. We didn't.
The analysis equipment on Galactica, you mean? The stuff transported down to the planet the way I suggested? Powered by the ships I say they should keep?With most of their analysis equipment gone, and most of the chemicals they'd presumably require to treat it also gone, that's rather pointless. They may figure out what is causing it, but that's no guarantee they'll be able to cure it.
You have a point about the chemicals not being present, but at least they could know what it is and be aware of how to prevent it, or know if it is temporary. Knowledge is power and these poor bastards are going to be largely ignorant.
There are advantages and disadvantages to that. If they are spread out without the technology then whole groups could very well be screwed.Which is exactly why they weren't grouped together in one big city, as any attempt to rebuild civilisation would have resulted in.
And I say it is pragmatic to use their already present technology to give them a leg up.Better? Nope. Pragmatic? Yes.
Yes, probably because it was Starbuck.Why? Would you have had the same reaction if it was, say, Billy that came back and led them to Earth? Or is it just because it was Starbuck?
Actually I have not noticed that. But those interesting characters and plots exist in a world where people are given an opportunity to shine. BSG just has people being miserable all the time.You may have noticed that I'm commonly the first to point out the idiocy of the whole pseudo-communist utopia the UFP is. I watch Trek because it had good plots, and interesting characters. When that stopped in VOY, I quickly stopped watching, and gave up on ENT after just the first three or four episodes.
But according to BSG we are going to be like this forever no matter what we do. Even Six only has a feeling.That's because we are. Short of mass brainwashing, humans aren't suddenly going to change the fundamental ways in which they think over the course of a few centuries. We're going to be like this for a long time.
And perhaps these humans could have changed based on their experiences. Lee's idealism was not bad, in small doses. Adama, who hated Cylons, came around. Humanity could learn to be better. But only if they remember the lessons and not forget them!
