Warning to Monroe

[Captain Seafort]

Monroe has been formally warned for his racist comments and accusations of racism towards Mikey in the thread "Hamas, Hezbollah and Israel", particularly this one:

No, I think you're just a Jew with a huge chip on your shoulder. You think the world owes Jews because of something that never happened to you personally. And you hate brown people for the way they've treated your people"

This sort of language will not be tolerated people.

[Monroe]

I'm sure you think that all of us Jews, Blacks, Greeks, Italians, and drunken Injuns should get out of your nice white country, too.

I want to know where's the warning for that. Sorry if my comment someone took offense to. But if you're going to have a rule against accusing someone is racist then make it a rule.

[Tsukiyumi]

Pretty sure there is a rule about that.

*digs through DITL Handbook*

Ah, yes:

All viewpoints are welcome here; however, people who preach any kind of hatred are not. You are welcome to say that you disagree with particular lifestyles, political philosophies, or whatever. But posting "All women/gays/asians/christians are evil and will burn in hell" is not allowed.

Honestly, Monroe, your comments on that thread were already pushing that boundary.

[Sionnach Glic]

Monroe, whether you agree with it or not, the warning has been issued. Tsukiyumi has backed Seafort on the issue as well. If you still think Seafort was out of line, despite an uninvolved mod backing his decision, appeal to one of the Kennedys.

[Monroe]

No, I can agree with Sea on the matter. My point is I was doing it because a mod was doing it. If you're going to allow insults on a forum there needs to be some rule. Otherwise its just mods can insult but normal people can't. If you've seen my threads over the past year I began nicely but as I saw insults being perfectly accepted I took part in them. I saw Mikey throwing a racist comment my way so I called him a racist. If you're going to allow the slippery slope of insulting each other then allow it. If you're not going to allow it then don't allow it.

Don't have a double standard. If I get a warning so should Mikey.

All viewpoints are welcome here; however, people who preach any kind of hatred are not. You are welcome to say that you disagree with particular lifestyles, political philosophies, or whatever. But posting "All women/gays/asians/christians are evil and will burn in hell" is not allowed.

I would like to point out I didn't actually violate that sentence though. I said Mikey specifically not all. And I did not put down the Jewish faith in any way.

[Sionnach Glic]

Monroe, the problem is this sentance of yours:

No, I think you're just a Jew with a huge chip on your shoulder. You think the world owes Jews because of something that never happened to you personally. And you hate brown people for the way they've treated your people"

The problem is that you basically said that, as Mikey is a Jew, he must naturally be supportive of Israel. Regardless as to whether or not you meant it that way, it comes across as stereotyping.

And yes, the rules do apply to mods too. If Mikey has made a similar comment, I've no doubt that he too will be brought up on it. So if you feel he has, please quote where it was and link to the post in question.

[Mikey]

If I may - Monroe made what Seafort saw as an anti-Semitic comment (I made no value judgement, as I'm involved in the debate, and as I'm travelling I hadn't seen it and will not have a chance to respond.) Monroe is claiming I said something similar, but the remark of mine which he references isn't a bigoted attack but the opposite - it's an allegation of racism.

[Monroe]

Actually Mikey had already made it pretty clear his unconditional support for Israel. And I was thinking why is he disagreeing with International Law (though I was unable to post the video I had spent half an hour digging up referring to international law concerning terrorism so let's ignore that fact). Then I remembered we had a Jewish member on the board, I looked it up and it was Mikey. I did not remember Mikey was Jewish and must support Israel. It was the other way around.

I did not mean it as derogatory and I apologize if you took it as that. But he is of the Jewish faith, what do you call a Jewish person besides a Jew? I was trying to shoot for the most legit thing. This is almost an episode of South Park. He is Jewish, why should it be considered an insult to call him what he is? I was not insulted that I was called white, I was insulted that I was called a racist. Either way, I sent a PM to Graham, I'll let him deal with it. If you took offense to me saying someone who is Jewish was a Jew then I sincerely apologize. Around where I live if someone's a Jew and we need to refer to him based on his religion or ethnicity we call him a Jew. I thought that was a national and international word as whenever I watch a news story about Jews they refer to them as Jews. Give me a different word and I'll use it.

[Mikey]

OK, it's a bit hard to keep up while travelling, but... first, let me point out that I had nothing to do with issuing the warning. I still haven't had a chance to look at that thread since my last post.

#1 - my alleged "unconditional" support of Israel is an obvious fallacy. I have come down numerous times against Israel on this board, and even in that particular discussion I criticized certain Israeli actions in the cases in which I thought it due. Jew =/= Zionist, which I have mentioned ad nauseam. This bit:

I did not remember Mikey was Jewish and must support Israel.

is evidence of stereotyping, which was obviously behind Seafort's motivation. It may not sound as offensive as if you said, "Mikey was Jewish and therefore sacrifices Christian babies to celebrate Passover," but it is nonetheless a stereotype. (Psst... BTW, I am not the "token" for this board. We have other Jews here. We control all the media outlets, remember?)

#2 -

I did not mean it as derogatory and I apologize if you took it as that. But he is of the Jewish faith, what do you call a Jewish person besides a Jew? I was trying to shoot for the most legit thing.

This is insulting to all of our intelligences. Please, unless there was a point you were trying to make by referring to me as a Jew specifically, you wouldn't have used the term. No, I am not ashamed to be Jewish nor am I insulted to be known as a Jew. However, the usage of the term in that context was clearly to make a point in re the above-mentioned stereotype.

[Deepcrush]

[Mark]

Monroe....I think of you and I as buds, and dude, I as being another Jew got pissed. But, I stayed out of it for several reasons, one of which is BECAUSE a second mod is a Jew (even if non practicing).

Let's just chalk it up as a lesson learned. We all still love ya....just pay closer attention next time.

[Mikey]

For my part... as I've told the mods, I admit that I said something which I wouldn't have given calmer consideration. It was not of the nature of a prejudicial attack, but I apologize to Monroe and to the membership in general.

[Monroe]

Thank you Mikey for the apology. I should have kept to just video links and let talking heads debate for me :p Video seems to be the easiest way to squash a debate anyway one way or the other. And yeah, I have nothing against the Jewish faith, I almost married a Jew once (she ended up going into lesbian porn but that's another story). I took great offense at the time for being called racist and ended up sounding more racist :p So I apologize in return.

[Tyyr]

(she ended up going into lesbian porn but that's another story).

Anything good?

[Captain Seafort]

And locked. If you want to take this into typical DITL territory, do it in FC, not R&A