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Orientation in space?
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:03 am
by LaughingCheese
So,
this is a great website, it really is, but I'm still not exactly sure why its so "wrong" to have a "starship" oriented like an airbus instead of a skyscrapper?
Sure, he mentions how it SHOULD be, just not WHY it has to be that way and, since its SPACE we're talking about, you'd think orientation would be arbitrary.
I dunno, I just need a little more explanation than that; still seems to me like decks could be oriented airbus style for other types of vehicles.
Thanks
LC
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:01 am
by Tholian_Avenger
When an elevator goes up, you feel the extra weight and your legs account for that.
When a bus goes forward you want to topple over if you are standing.
If you layer your decks such that their normal is parallel to the direction of ship's acceleration you can walk around during 1G.
If you layer them with the normal perpendicular you are crawling up ladders all day long...
A lot of scifi shows have wonky artificial gravity and inertia management systems, so in those cases, just do whatever.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:27 pm
by Teaos
If the dampeners on most starships were off by even 1% you'd be cleaning out the crew with a sponge.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:38 pm
by Griffin
Does the author of that site have to sound like a condescending prick all the time? They seem to forget a key half of the term Science-Fiction. Namely, the FICTION part. Hard Sci-fi can be fun too, but you don't have to act so condescendingly to people that create and consume soft sci-fi like they seem to be doing.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:45 pm
by Lt. Staplic
It's bee mentioned already, but the answer is acceleration. If your ship isn't accelerating and your just coasting along at a constant speed then you're right, deck orientation doesn't matter. If however the ship is accelerating this is like creating an artificial gravity field in the direction anti-parallel to the direction of acceleration. Thus you'd want to put your decks such that they are perpendicular to the directions your ship can accelerate/decelerate.
Think about a airplane. For most of the flight the acceleration is minimal thus the primary force you feel is gravity, hence the airbus style. But at take-off the acceleration becomes non-trivial, which is why you feel yourself pushed back into your seat (in fact your seat is being pushed into you). Now imagine this situation without gravity. During normal flight there would be no forces at all you could float along and call any surface the floor, but during periods of acceleration you would be able to stand on the tower style floor and walk around (assuming your accelerating at 1G).
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:57 pm
by McAvoy
The most reliable piece of technology in Sci Fi is artificial gravity. You will run out of air but at least you will be on your feet.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:21 pm
by Teaos
Infact I can only remember maybe 2 times it gets messed with.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:18 am
by Tholian_Avenger
Griffin wrote:Does the author of that site have to sound like a condescending prick all the time?
Yes.
Actually, I don't think he is condescending at all, and you are probably taking it too personally.
Griffin wrote:They seem to forget a key half of the term Science-Fiction. Namely, the FICTION part.
The only requirement for fiction is that it be a made up story. A lot of pop scifi forgets the science half completely, and just writes space fantasy magic.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:18 am
by Sonic Glitch
McAvoy wrote:The most reliable piece of technology in Sci Fi is artificial gravity. You will run out of air phase but at least you will be on your feet.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:07 pm
by Graham Kennedy
He's more just missing the point than condescending. He talks as if the goal of all sci-fi is to depict spaceships that are as close to realistic science as possible, and so anybody who doesn't have things the way he thinks they should be is making a mistake.
He couldn't be more wrong.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:17 pm
by McAvoy
I think modern Science Fiction should or does try to be accurate with the current understandings of science, but it is fiction after all. Plenty of TV drama shows out there that depict the military way off.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:42 pm
by Graham Kennedy
McAvoy wrote:I think modern Science Fiction should or does try to be accurate with the current understandings of science
Some of it does, most of it doesn't.
For example it's difficult to name a sci fi movie that doesn't feature artificial gravity and FTL flight. I can think of two modern ones - Gravity and Apollo 13. There must be dozens that don't, though.
but it is fiction after all. Plenty of TV drama shows out there that depict the military way off.
Or police, or lawyers, or doctors, etc.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:56 pm
by Griffin
They have a section about this on the site
by the same logic, the term "detective fiction" gives the author license to totally ignore standard procedures and techniques used by detectives, the term "military fiction" allows the author to totally ignore military tactics and strategy, and the term "historical fiction" allows the author to totally ignore the relevant history.
They do, all the time.
Imagine a historical fiction novel where Napoleon at Waterloo defeated the knights of the Round Table by using the Enola Gay to drop an atom bomb. It's OK because it is "fiction", right?
Yeah, that sounds awesome.
In the presence of people who are indeed scientifically literate, such fans tend to get very defensive about their lack of knowledge. The non-argument is a feeble attempt at compensating for their shortcomings by attempting to forbid the others from using their knowledge.
Not condescening, eh? . Nobody's forbiding using that knowledge, just pointing out the fact that sci-fi has as much need to stick to 100% accurate physics as a fantasy story has to stick to 100% accurate dragon population levels during the middle ages.
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:33 pm
by McAvoy
Logical Fallacies oh my!
Re: Orientation in space?
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:35 pm
by Graham Kennedy
Yeah, he acts like other branches of fiction take care to be accurate to their field. One can only assume he never actually watches any fiction.
Truthfully you can probably get away with more in sci fi than you can in many fields, just because people don't know much science. But to pretend that everything but sci fi aims for accuracy is just absurd.