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Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:05 am
by Captain Picard's Hair
This film isn't Superman II. It's not fair to judge the different behavior of Superman/Kal El without also considering the different problems posed by Zod, Non and Faora. In this version, these three supervillains with powers equal to Superman's are out for a mission of a much larger scale. They also now armed with technology they didn't have in Superman II and they directly threaten the survival of the entire human species. These versions of Zod and co act differently as much as Superman himself does compared to the original film version. They're not focused singularly on fighting Superman, as that's just one step on a larger plan that doesn't include Homo Sapiens. A different enemy needs different tactics to defeat.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:42 am
by RK_Striker_JK_5
Okay, that poster? 129,000 confirmed dead? Sorry, dubious at best.

And Superman did save soldiers several times. And Faora commented that his morality was a weakness. It just got to the point that he was double-teamed or fighting a being that was roughly equal to his powers and was better-trained AND basically had a death wish and was trying to commit suicide-by-cop at that point.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:59 am
by Graham Kennedy
Captain Picard's Hair wrote:This film isn't Superman II. It's not fair to judge the different behavior of Superman/Kal El without also considering the different problems posed by Zod, Non and Faora. In this version, these three supervillains with powers equal to Superman's are out for a mission of a much larger scale. They also now armed with technology they didn't have in Superman II and they directly threaten the survival of the entire human species. These versions of Zod and co act differently as much as Superman himself does compared to the original film version. They're not focused singularly on fighting Superman, as that's just one step on a larger plan that doesn't include Homo Sapiens. A different enemy needs different tactics to defeat.
None of which really goes to the issue of why Supes suddenly and completely flips from "meh, who cares" to "Nooooo! Don't kill the innocents!"

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:03 pm
by IanKennedy
RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Okay, that poster? 129,000 confirmed dead? Sorry, dubious at best.
Yes, I agree, it would be far higher than that. A significant part of south easy asia was destroyed. That area of the world is very densely populated. 129,000 would be grossly underestimated.
And Superman did save soldiers several times. And Faora commented that his morality was a weakness. It just got to the point that he was double-teamed or fighting a being that was roughly equal to his powers and was better-trained AND basically had a death wish and was trying to commit suicide-by-cop at that point.
Ooo a part of the film that was so feeble it almost didn't exist. They taunted him and nothing became of it. His realisation in STII was far more significant.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:07 pm
by IanKennedy
Captain Picard's Hair wrote:This film isn't Superman II. It's not fair to judge the different behavior of Superman/Kal El without also considering the different problems posed by Zod, Non and Faora. In this version, these three supervillains with powers equal to Superman's are out for a mission of a much larger scale. They also now armed with technology they didn't have in Superman II and they directly threaten the survival of the entire human species. These versions of Zod and co act differently as much as Superman himself does compared to the original film version. They're not focused singularly on fighting Superman, as that's just one step on a larger plan that doesn't include Homo Sapiens. A different enemy needs different tactics to defeat.
But that isn't the point. They point is he just doesn't give a damn for people in this film. It's not just during the fight it's all the way through the film. The only point at which he even thinks about people is in the train station. A scene so jarring it almost ruined the entire film for me. It was a change so striking as to make Janeway look positively consistent.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:12 pm
by IanKennedy
RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Well, Ian, sorry, but Superman's never been perfect, even in the Reeves movies.
Perfect in what way? He's always had compassion for humanity. Hope Boy doesn't. He's always tried to do the right thing and lead by example, Hope Boy has been brought up by Kevin Costner to hide and do nothing, just in case the scary humans shun him or something.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:21 am
by Graham Kennedy
I watched the 1978 Superman movie the other day. It's absolutely amazing just how damn GOOD that film is in so many ways. It's got a good story, good characters, good acting... builds up to a superb climax. And tell me you don't want to cheer when he catches that helicopter!

Saw Man of Steel today. I still don't claim it's TERRIBLE, but it's mediocre.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:07 am
by RK_Striker_JK_5
i almost mworship the first two Reeves movies... and I still love this one. Because Superman is 75 years old and he's been a LOT of things over the years.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:16 pm
by IanKennedy
Saw it again this weekend with Graham. I slept through most of it. It's just that dull.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:15 pm
by Graham Kennedy
He's not exaggerating. I had to poke him awake like five times. :poke:

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:03 am
by RK_Striker_JK_5
*Hands over a pillow and bucket of water* :happydevil:

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:06 am
by McAvoy
GrahamKennedy wrote:I watched the 1978 Superman movie the other day. It's absolutely amazing just how damn GOOD that film is in so many ways. It's got a good story, good characters, good acting... builds up to a superb climax. And tell me you don't want to cheer when he catches that helicopter!

Saw Man of Steel today. I still don't claim it's TERRIBLE, but it's mediocre.
The movie is slow in its build up. You got comical villains and I am not talking like The Joker villain but comic villains.

The whole movie rests squarely on Christopher Reeves shoulders.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:25 am
by RK_Striker_JK_5
McAvoy wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:I watched the 1978 Superman movie the other day. It's absolutely amazing just how damn GOOD that film is in so many ways. It's got a good story, good characters, good acting... builds up to a superb climax. And tell me you don't want to cheer when he catches that helicopter!

Saw Man of Steel today. I still don't claim it's TERRIBLE, but it's mediocre.
The movie is slow in its build up. You got comical villains and I am not talking like The Joker villain but comic villains.

The whole movie rests squarely on Christopher Reeves shoulders.
But to be fair, he could more than carry it.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:55 pm
by McAvoy
True. True.

That is why the movies are remembered so fondly by many and why Christopher Reeves will always be the Gold standard of Superman to be compared to.

Re: Man of steel (spoilers)

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:07 pm
by Tyyr
I don't think I've seen a Superman movie I actually enjoyed.