Breen Attack on Earth

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I doubt it - this is the TNG era. Even during TOS we never heard of any combat-grade planetary shielding.

Given the evidence available the most likely scenario is that what we're seeing is damage from direct weapon hits. Given that Starship weapons would flatten most of the bay area, what we're probably seeing is the effects of a fighter strafing run, with the larger ships intercepted and destroyed out of range of the planet.

Well, there was a planetary shield covering the planet in 'Whom Gods Destroy' that could take a hit from the Enterprise's weapons without any appreciable damage.

[Captain Seafort]

As to kiloton range, photorps, according to the tech manual, are megaton range weapons. So smaller weapons are distinctly possible.

The tech manual is bullshit - even the deflector dish uberweapon was only single-digit Mt/sec, and PTs can be calc'd to about 1 Mt.

[Mikey]

I doubt it - this is the TNG era. Even during TOS we never heard of any combat-grade planetary shielding.

Given the evidence available the most likely scenario is that what we're seeing is damage from direct weapon hits. Given that Starship weapons would flatten most of the bay area, what we're probably seeing is the effects of a fighter strafing run, with the larger ships intercepted and destroyed out of range of the planet.

Well, there was a planetary shield covering the planet in 'Whom Gods Destroy' that could take a hit from the Enterprise's weapons without any appreciable damage.

My memory is fuzzy of the details of that ep (one of the perils of advanced age ) but was the force field/shield either/or:
a) created by Garth after taking Cory's place;
b) local to the facility itself rather than covering a greater land area?

The tech manual is bullshit - even the deflector dish uberweapon was only single-digit Mt/sec, and PTs can be calc'd to about 1 Mt.

+1. I could say that photon torpedoes are rated in the gazillo-ton range, and it would have as much canonicity as the TM's.

[Captain Seafort]

Well, there was a planetary shield covering the planet in 'Whom Gods Destroy' that could take a hit from the Enterprise's weapons without any appreciable damage.

My memory is fuzzy of the details of that ep (one of the perils of advanced age ) but was the force field/shield either/or:
a) created by Garth after taking Cory's place;
b) local to the facility itself rather than covering a greater land area?

It was covering the facility alone, but it was far from proof against the E-nil. As Scotty put it, "We could blast our way through the field, but only at the risk of destroying the Captain, Mister Spock and any other living thing on Elba Two." Whether this would be caused by flattening the facility or simply breaching the dome, it's clear that the shield was no match for their weapons.

[Graham Kennedy]

Did any races have planetary bombardment weapons? If they were just using ship-to-ship weapons then I would not expect too much damage. More a terror/scare tactic than anything meant to do physical harm.

"This is the commander of the U.S.S. Enterprise. All cities and installations on Eminiar 7 have been located, identified, and fed into our fire control system. In 1 hour and 45 minutes, the entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed. You have that long to surrender your hostages." - Scotty, A Taste of Armageddon.

If the E-nil can do that, add a hundred years of weapons development and multiply it up by an entire fleet and yes, I would expect that TNG era ships are capable of pretty significant orbital bombardment.

What the Cardies / Romulans did in The Die is Cast would seem to support that.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Well, there was a planetary shield covering the planet in 'Whom Gods Destroy' that could take a hit from the Enterprise's weapons without any appreciable damage.

My memory is fuzzy of the details of that ep (one of the perils of advanced age ) but was the force field/shield either/or:
a) created by Garth after taking Cory's place;
b) local to the facility itself rather than covering a greater land area?

It was covering the facility alone, but it was far from proof against the E-nil. As Scotty put it, "We could blast our way through the field, but only at the risk of destroying the Captain, Mister Spock and any other living thing on Elba Two." Whether this would be caused by flattening the facility or simply breaching the dome, it's clear that the shield was no match for their weapons.

Damn, I'm sorry. Memory really is going fuzzy on me.

[Graham Kennedy]

It was covering the facility alone

No it wasn't. Dialogue from the episode :

Scotty : "Sensor readings?"
Sulu :"The force field is weakest on the far side of the planet. We can send down a shuttlecraft carrying a team in environmental suits."
McCoy : "It won't work, Scotty. They'd have to cover thousands of miles through poisonous atmosphere before they'd ever reach the asylum."
Scott : "Aye, you're right. Even if they made it, they couldn't carry anything powerful enough to break through the asylum dome. Only the ship herself could do that."
McCoy : "Probably kill Jim and Spock."

The fact that they shielded an entire planet to protect one rather small asylum colony would seem to indicate that planetary shields are not an especially difficult task in TOS.

[Captain Seafort]

No it wasn't. Dialogue from the episode

Hmm. Fair enough - I remembered the bit about sending a shuttle down, but not the mention of the shield still being present.

The fact that they shielded an entire planet to protect one rather small asylum colony would seem to indicate that planetary shields are not an especially difficult task in TOS.

The other side of the coin is that none of the shields in question have been stated or even implied to be combat-grade. Quite the contrary - Scotty expected to be able to punch through fairly easily, and the problem was the likelihood of killing everyone on the surface. These shields, like the ones around the Tantalus colony, are clearly aimed at blocking transporters, not weapons fire. The neutral zone outposts obviously did have combat shields, but they were much smaller than a planet.

[Graham Kennedy]

They were certainly weak enough for the Enterprise to be able to punch through, but that doesn't really suggest that they were the shield equivalent of tissue paper. The Enterprise has shown itself capable of punching through combat level shields on several occasions, after all.

[McAvoy]

It also kind of gives you an impression that if a shield generator or whatever was on the other side of the plnet there wouldn't be any weak spots either. Speculation of course.

[Mikey]

Is this Star Trek or Dune? What I mean is that even though they were discussing the point at which the force field was weakest, they expected without question to be able to fly a shuttle straight through it. Further, it might be interpreted as telling that the terminology used was "force field" specifically.

[Captain Seafort]

Is this Star Trek or Dune? What I mean is that even though they were discussing the point at which the force field was weakest, they expected without question to be able to fly a shuttle straight through it. Further, it might be interpreted as telling that the terminology used was "force field" specifically.

It's not unheard of for ships to be able to penetrate Trek shields at weak points - Worf and Data were able to sail straight through the Borg ship's shield in BoBW II, and Ro was able to push a Maquis ship through the E-D's aft shields in Preemptive Strike.

[Deepcrush]

Is there a chance that the damage we saw could have been done by debris?

[Captain Seafort]

Is there a chance that the damage we saw could have been done by debris?

From bits of starship? Possibly, but if so it fell in awfully convenient places, and the discussion around it implied that the damage was done by direct fire rather than simple debris.

[Deepcrush]

Convenient places that were shown. However I don't recall them ever stating the total damage inflicted. A single ship making it over SanFran and then blowing up would cause a similar effect.