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USSEnterprise wrote:Then again, they are all under the impression any sci-fi universe would pwn trek.

In the grand scheme of things Trek is way down the list in terms of ass kicking ability.

Tyyr wrote:

USSEnterprise wrote:Then again, they are all under the impression any sci-fi universe would pwn trek.

In the grand scheme of things Trek is way down the list in terms of ass kicking ability.

Even with the Genesis device and Trilithium Torpedoes, both effectively star killing devices that can ravage entire solar systems (see ST-II and ST-G).

IanKennedy wrote:

Tyyr wrote:

USSEnterprise wrote:Then again, they are all under the impression any sci-fi universe would pwn trek.

In the grand scheme of things Trek is way down the list in terms of ass kicking ability.

Even with the Genesis device and Trilithium Torpedoes, both effectively star killing devices that can ravage entire solar systems (see ST-II and ST-G).

And red matter for that matter.

Indeed

If you want to crank it up to WMDs, sure, but then again most every sci-fi franchise has some weapon out there to blow up planets and stars. I'm talking ship to ship.

Tyyr wrote:If you want to crank it up to WMDs, sure, but then again most every sci-fi franchise has some weapon out there to blow up planets and stars. I'm talking ship to ship.

Ah, I see you want to say "if we ignore all the good stuff, then they're not that good really". The logic of that escapes me. Trilithium torps and red matter could easily be launched from a ship. In fact the first trilithium torp was in a standard federation torp housing. Shoot it at a star and you will pretty much kill anything that doesn't get out of the way quickly enough. As for red matter, they specifically used it ship to ship in the film, they just used Spock's ship as a torp.

Most vs. debates stay away from WMDs because everyone has them. If all you want to do is compare who can blow up stars or planets well then pretty much every major sci-fi franchise has some uberweapon tucked away to do it. It gets you no where. Also, how often is the first step in combat, "Start blowing up stars/crushing planets and killing billions of civilians." I sure as hell don't see the Federation ever using them as weapons of war. The WMDs are typically the least interesting parts of any sci-fi franchise.

I don't need Trek to be the best and most UB3R3ST!!!1! franchise out there. I don't need to think that the Ent-E could eat a Star Destroyer to let me enjoy the show. In fact I like that Trek is relatively low powered compared to most sci-fi. When was the last time you saw someone in Star Wars do some actual exploring?

If it makes you happy to think that Trek can take on any comers with trilithium torps and red matter warheads knock yourself out.

Tyyr wrote:Most vs. debates stay away from WMDs because everyone has them. If all you want to do is compare who can blow up stars or planets well then pretty much every major sci-fi franchise has some uberweapon tucked away to do it. It gets you no where. Also, how often is the first step in combat, "Start blowing up stars/crushing planets and killing billions of civilians." I sure as hell don't see the Federation ever using them as weapons of war. The WMDs are typically the least interesting parts of any sci-fi franchise.

As a measure of the power of a civilisation I would disagree.

I don't need Trek to be the best and most UB3R3ST!!!1! franchise out there. I don't need to think that the Ent-E could eat a Star Destroyer to let me enjoy the show. In fact I like that Trek is relatively low powered compared to most sci-fi. When was the last time you saw someone in Star Wars do some actual exploring?

I don't care who's the best, and in fact that topic is specificaly banned here for very good reasons. No good ever comes of it. I was specifically responding to the question of Trek in and as it's self being "Kick Ass". I didn't refer to any other franchise in that respect I simply pointed out the level of capability demonstrably available.

If it makes you happy to think that Trek can take on any comers with trilithium torps and red matter warheads knock yourself out.

Any comers are not involved, as I say I was specifically commenting on the level of technological destructive capability seen. Nothing more. Please do not bring other franchises into the issue as it's will mean I have to shut down the thread.

it does depend on how its perceived. Star Trek never tries to be bad ass or contain bad ass things, its always aimed toward a slightly softer approach compared to other shows, maybe as it was Gene Roddenberry to have this idealistic society. Sure, kick ass tech exists but its never written in a kick ass way. Take a WH:40K book. Even the damn hand weapons are written specifically to show the gore, the might and the power behind them. Where as the phaser is often written either to show precision or to show a strange sort of elegance, hardly a bad ass quality. Star Trek isn't perceived in a bad ass way cause it isn't intended to be.

Purely on the subject of Halo, sure, a trilithium torpedo can obliterate an entire system. But we never really get any scope of the effect apart from dialogue. Franchise such as halo show the brute force and carnage of say glassing a planet in its macabre glory. Or the Firewarrior cutscene that shows an IG fleet committing Exterminatus. its all more...real.

The exception, IMO, is the latest trek film. That had some bad ass moments.

Trek has just never been a combat oriented show. Not a bad thing by any means, but compared to most other scifi, the ratio of battle to anything else is much more balanced in trek, where in other franchises combat tends to get the biggest slice of pie.

Foxfyre wrote:

Deepcrush wrote:Who???

On a more interesting note, changed my avatar.

Looks good, FF2?

That or 8-bit theater.

Trek combat has always been more like submarines and other sci-fi has been more like dogfights. Which one is more interesting for most people to watch?

Also, SB is fulled with lesbian loving fanfic writing...just saying.

I personally think they're talking out of their collective asses. The thing about trek is they've always used "just enough" force. Safe to say, the Federation and Starfleet are the toughest guys on the block in a coventional sense (minus the Borg or Dominion who have their own quadrents). They don't really wage an all out war, so I think it's more a matter of ruthlessness than anything. Without going into a VS arguement, I've seen Star Wars, Babylon 5, Stargate, Mass Effect, Aliens, and a whole slew of others. I've not yet seen anything to make me think that any of them has more overall destructive capability than Trek, should the writers suddenly so choose to employ.