Species of the week: Humans

Post by **Teaos** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:02 pm

I think we've all meet at least one of these so I won't waste time with what they look like.

The fact that after only a few hundred years they are on top of the food chain despite some bloody stupid ideas is no less than remarkable.

I personally think the thing that makes humans dominant is there drive to better themselves. They push themselves harder and faster than any other species we've meet. Infact they do it so much even the Q think they may one day surpass even them.

On paper humans seem rather pathetic. Physically weak with no great mental prowess or extra abilities. There is no good reason why they do so well. Even the Borg think them rather pathetic although this is disputed by the fact they have tried to take them over twice.

Thoughts on the kick ass humans?

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:51 pm

Why exactly did you put us in the Voyager forum? That series was built around a good candidate for the stupidest member of the species - Janeway.

Overall, I'm not sure where the brainbug of "stupid, weak humans" came from. They've demonstrated the ability to hold their own (at least temporarily) against Vulcans, Klingons and Andorians - species noted for their physical strength. The Borg insistence that humans are inferior is probably a case of "meethink they doth protest too much". Locutus described Data as a "primitive artificial life form" - but FC showed that he was proof against Borg hacking, at least for a time.

They have not, however, demonstrated any significant technological progress for centuries - they've honed existing technology, but no major new development has occured. Warp drive, impulse power, phasers, torpedoes, artifical gravity, transporters, etc, are all systems in use in the 24th century that had recognisable equivalents in the 22nd century, and there was clear foreshadowing of shields and tractor beams.

They're main characteristic is probably curiousity - it's the driving force behind Starfleet's mission of exploration, at the express disaproval of the Vulcans. To stereotype the major species, Vulcans work towards ever greater mental discipline, Klngons work towards greater achievements on the battlefield, Romulans work towards political influence, Ferengi work towards greater profit, Cardassians work towards being feared, and Humans work towards seeing one more new sight.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:53 pm

Humans work towards seeing one more new sight.

Which leads us to greater knowledge, I suppose.

Post by **Teaos** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:00 pm

Why exactly did you put us in the Voyager forum?

Because this forum gets less traffic and I was trying to even it out.

Overall, I'm not sure where the brainbug of "stupid, weak humans" came from. They've demonstrated the ability to hold their own (at least temporarily) against Vulcans, Klingons and Andorians - species noted for their physical strength.

The fact that it is stated as a fact several times would make it canon. The fact we have seen humans win in a fight might just mean they were exeptional individuals or against weak opponents.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:09 pm

Tsukiyumi wrote:
Humans work towards seeing one more new sight.
Which leads us to greater knowledge, I suppose.

In a way, but does seeing a beautiful sunset, or a beach, or a new planet or star give you technological superiority over a Vor'cha class cruiser? No - being able to say "I've seen a hundred stars" is a personnal acomlishment, much as Klingon might say "I've won a hundred battles" or a Ferengi "I've got a hundred bars of latinum".

Fed technology's only apparent advantage over the Klingons and Romulans is miniaturisation, allowing them to build a warship capable of taking on the best they've got to offer while cramming it full of useless junk. I can't recall any examples of the Feds being superior.

Post by **Teaos** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:13 pm

But when you go to look at something you dont know if its just going to be pretty or if it might somehow give you some deeper understanding of something.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:15 pm

Teaos wrote:
Overall, I'm not sure where the brainbug of "stupid, weak humans" came from. They've demonstrated the ability to hold their own (at least temporarily) against Vulcans, Klingons and Andorians - species noted for their physical strength.
The fact that it is stated as a fact several times would make it canon. The fact we have seen humans win in a fight might just mean they were exeptional individuals or against weak opponents.

That we've heard it several times means that it's "common knowlege". At one time it was common knowlege that heavy objects fell faster that lighter ones, or that the Earth was flat. The evidence we've seen is that humans can take on suposedly stronger aliens and win. Shran was an officer of the Imperial Guard, the corps d'elite of the Andorian Armed Forces, of a particularly martial race, and Archer beat him in a form of combat that Shran had trained for all his life.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:18 pm

Shran was an officer of the Imperial Guard, the corps d'elite of the Andorian Armed Forces, of a particularly martial race, and Archer beat him in a form of combat that Shran had trained for all his life.

Maybe Archer was on amphetamines... Or maybe he started taking steroids during the Xindi arc. He did seem to get a lot tougher over a short period of time...

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:20 pm

The fact that it is stated as a fact several times would make it canon. The fact we have seen humans win in a fight might just mean they were exeptional individuals or against weak opponents.

I'd disagree with that. (

)
We've seen several humans, some of which are hardly in great shape, take on things like Klingons in combat and be more than capable of holding their own. Something being stated several times doesn't prove that humans are weak, it simply means it is a common belief in the Trek-verse. Klingons and similar races would naturaly claim to be stronger than humans, it's part of their mentality. We've seen in canon that humans are capable of holding their own, whatever other races say about this doesn't dispute it.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:26 pm

We've seen in canon that humans are capable of holding their own, whatever other races say about this doesn't dispute it.

Maybe the Federation has their own version of the modern-day pep pills (amphetamines) that our troops get on a regular basis.

Post by **Teaos** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:31 pm

Vulcan is said to have higher gravity and that the are 2 or 3 times the strengh of humans. I'm not sure if it has been said in quite such a blunt way about Klingons but it is presumed due to their size.

But remember that you dont have to be the strongest to win a fight. If we are talking pure physical abilities than it seems humans are weak.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:39 pm

But remember that you dont have to be the strongest to win a fight.

This is very true. I have seen it happen dozens of times.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:51 pm

Tsukiyumi wrote:
But remember that you dont have to be the strongest to win a fight.
This is very true. I have seen it happen dozens of times.

Which is why I used the Archer vs Shran example - Archer was suposedly weaker, less well trained, and had virtually no experience with the weapons they were using. He should have ended up as the proverbial "45 pence a slice in Sainsbury's".

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:26 pm

I've been in a number of fights in my life, some much more violent then others. But I have seen the strongest and most skilled man beaten by someone with nothing to lose. The big guy may have all the advantages but sometimes that's not what wins the fight. Sometimes its the fact that if you lose then you lose everything. Ego can bring down the biggest and toughest man simply because he doesn't take someone seriously.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:38 pm

Teaos wrote:Vulcan is said to have higher gravity and that the are 2 or 3 times the strengh of humans. I'm not sure if it has been said in quite such a blunt way about Klingons but it is presumed due to their size.

I know that. Physicaly humans are weaker, but the fact remains that humans are still able to beat them, thus my pioint stands. Whether they win through inteligence, strength, or something else entirely is a different question.

Tsukiyumi wrote:Maybe the Federation has their own version of the modern-day pep pills (amphetamines) that our troops get on a regular basis.

I doubt it. Firstly, that would require someone in the Federation to have a brain. Secondly, that would seem to go against Federation mentality.