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Mikey wrote:Sonic was right... initially.

Hey, I'll take what I can get

I did mean a dedicated science ship, in nature like the Oberth or Nova. However, byt "more capability" I didn't mean military capability. Like Seafort, I have no issue with science ships being comparatively unarmed compared to warships or explorers(which are by nature intended to "beat the bounds.") By greater capability I meant rather that it would be nice to see a dedicated science/research ship with the stamina to stay on-site at a point of interest, or with the range and top end to get to one that's farther than the next system over. If we're talking about a phenomenon or POI in unexplored, disputed, or dangerous territory, then by all means the answer is to send an explorer or a science ship under escort - not upgun a research vessel.

My mistake, I misinterpreted. In my case I'm not so much talking about upgunning it to the point of increasing it's combat capabilities to go toe-to-toe with a Vor'cha or whatever, just increase the defensive capabilities (shields or engines, or both) so they can last long enough to get out of harms way; which might work with what you mean. Increasing endurance.

More of an Intrepid sized Nova? Keep the shields and engines and tone down the phasers with NO torpedo tubes. This the idea?

Vic wrote:More of an Intrepid sized Nova? Keep the shields and engines and tone down the phasers with NO torpedo tubes. This the idea?

Something like that. I hadn't really thought about the exact weapons loadout yet, although I expect it would need one launcher for probes (which seem to double as torp launchers.) My main concern was range - which would mean an increased size from the tiny science ships we've seen and a top end somewhere over 8.5 - and mission duration, which would also be a function of the size.

Captain Seafort wrote:

Sonic Glitch wrote:So they shouldn't be able to run like hell and we should just write them off in the event something unfortunate happens? (Which seems to be ever 3rd episode on average)

Would said scientists be able to run like hell? The solution is to make sure that the Klingons don't get into Fed space in the first place, and to respond firmly in the case of such incidents (either economically or militarily).

Exactly. You can make your science/medical ships much more cheaply if you have a robust defense capability elsewhere that can provide deterrence and/or great border security.

Sorry to jump in late, but I'm going with an explorer. We've got next generation ships coming out all the time for mission specific jobs...but Starfleet has always been primarily about galaxy exploration. I think we NEED a new generation explorer. NOTE...the EU explorers are NOT cannon and can't be counted as such for the purpose of this discussion.

Mark wrote:We've got next generation ships coming out all the time for mission specific jobs

I would love to hear some examples. Some of our options in the poll are:
a) hospital ship - the Olympic class is already behind the state of the art (judging by the nacelles, secondary hull design, etc.) at the time of TNG, and is even so apparently the premier (and probably only) hospital ship class by the time of the future AGT timeline.

b) science ship - the Nova is already extant by the time of Voyager's launch; and while it makes use of the more modern ship design philosophy aesthetically; it is apparently short-ranged, of limited duration, and relatively slow. Even if we accept the Rhode Island refit as an extant ship, it is patently no longer a science vessel at that point.

c) transport vessel - the only one I ever recall seeing was the Jenolen (supposedly the Sydney-class,) which was already nearly a century old by TNG.

d) troop transport/assault - there hasn't been one in the history of ever, let alone a "next gen" one.

e) battleship - well, depends on what the poll means. If we mean "ship of war," then yes - we've got the Prommie, we've got the Sov. If it means an actual battleship... not so much. The war-refit GCS or the Sov may be considered as such, although apparently the UFP doesn't (of course, they may be named in order to follow a more non-threatening convention, so I'll cede that.)

Mark wrote:the EU explorers are NOT cannon and can't be counted as such for the purpose of this discussion.

Anything stemming from this discussion is likewise non-canon.

I think what the Feds should be looking to bulid (assuming they built the Paladin already) is a mid-sized cruiser type hull that could serve as the skeleton for both an Akira/Ambassador/Excelsior replacement and an explorer and could be built in large numbers.

You would have two distinct classes but they would use the same powerplant and drive system. One would be a true cruiser with a proper weapons fit for the job and the other would be an explorer with higher speed than the Galaxy or Nebula (thinking Sovereign fast here) and plenty of science capacity to get the job done but not so huge that you can't run the risk of losing one.

My goal would be to build these in pretty large numbers over a long period of time.

Why would they need to replace the Akira so soon? Its the perfect mid sized cruiser for SF. Fast, tough, long ranged (we think) and with a massive amount of fire power. Plus, with those 15 PTLs, its LONG range fire power.

Paladins with (2-4) Akira each, with (2-4) Defiants per Akira.

That is a deadly combo right there. The Paladins get up close, the Akira provide long range cover fire, the Defiants provide close up support for the Akiras and Paladins.

SF doesn't need a new warship. With what we've given SF plus what it has. Its fleet projection is maxed out. What SF really needs is the ability to project itself in the only remaining field left and thats on the ground.

Deepcrush wrote:Why would they need to replace the Akira so soon? Its the perfect mid sized cruiser for SF. Fast, tough, long ranged (we think) and with a massive amount of fire power. Plus, with those 15 PTLs, its LONG range fire power.

Paladins with (2-4) Akira each, with (2-4) Defiants per Akira.

That is a deadly combo right there. The Paladins get up close, the Akira provide long range cover fire, the Defiants provide close up support for the Akiras and Paladins.

SF doesn't need a new warship. With what we've given SF plus what it has. Its fleet projection is maxed out. What SF really needs is the ability to project itself in the only remaining field left and thats on the ground.

While I agree they don't need a new warship just to replace the Akira they do need to replace a bunch of Excelsiors and Ambassadors at some point because we see those ships in very large numbers and the former in particular have to just be getting worn out. It might be an eventual Akira replacement, but it will probably take 10-20 years just to replace the Excelsiors and Ambassadors one for one.

I was speaking more to if Starfleet decided to build a new explorer though. By mission definition it would have most of the things you want for a cruiser, high speed, long range and endurance and so on. When they build that hull they should just design two variants using the same basic hull structure for cost savings.

I agree Starfleet needs other things worse. Just something to think about when it comes time to build an explorer/cruiser.

For a long range explorer, the best ship would the the Nebula Class. That pod section could easily be fitted with supplies instead of PTLs. Though the same could be said for scientific missions as well.

Sorry guys but building a new S/E class just seems stupid with all the classes that SF already has for this very role.

Deepcrush wrote:For a long range explorer, the best ship would the the Nebula Class. That pod section could easily be fitted with supplies instead of PTLs. Though the same could be said for scientific missions as well.

Sorry guys but building a new S/E class just seems stupid with all the classes that SF already has for this very role.

I would agree except that a new class explorer would be much more efficient in terms of speed. The cruise for a Sovereign era explorer would be 9.9 plus, a Nebula is warp 9. The Sovereign is about twice as fast and on a 3 or 5 year survey mission that is a hell of a lot more places you can get to. So if you can build a smaller ship with that kind of speed it has a ton of value I would think.

Isn't that the Intrepid then? A smaller, faster ship meant to go to a lot of places rather then setting camp at one place?

Deepcrush wrote:Isn't that the Intrepid then? A smaller, faster ship meant to go to a lot of places rather then setting camp at one place?

Yeah, but it did not really seem built to have the legs for it supply wise. Anyways, I just like fast ships. I am by nature a person who hates waiting so I want to go as fast as possible everywhere I am going. Personal bias more than anything.

Well, as long as there is a reason. However that doesn't help the mission. Long range and speed rarely go together. A slower ship that moves at half the speed but can stay out or ten or twenty times longer is still a better deal.

Mission specific ships like the Defiant, Steamrunner, Sabre, and Norway. Even the Sovereign isn't exactly a ship of exploration anymore. I'm thinking of something along the lines of how the GCS SHOULD have been. A long range explorer designed to operate independently for say a ten year deep space mission. Good firepower and defensive systems but not so much so that they are called every twenty minutes into battle. The scientific capabilities to conduct research, and an overall return to seeking out new life and new civilizations.......not just revisiting already discovered races.