Third Age Total War

[Deepcrush]

Two parts to this. First being, could one of the mods move the stuff over from the Rome thread. Two is that the 1.4 mod patch is now out. This one includes...

Balrogs for use by the Moria faction.
Heavy Spearmen for use by the Isangard faction.
Uruk axeman which are fast infantry with heavy two handed axes for use by Isangard faction.

Plus, around a dozen new heros mixed in for several of the factions.

[Deepcrush]

Okay, after several runs I can tell you that the 1.4 patch is a piece of shite! It doesn't do anything but crash the game and cost you your saves.

However, if you load everything up to and including 1.3 it runs like a dream. The new skins and animations are amazing. I have two new games going (since 1.4 wrecked my other saves) as Gondor and Isengard.

Isengard - For some reason I ended up allied to the Good Guys. Rohan and Gondor love me and we've joined together against the High Elves and Arnor. I've also killed off the Orcs of the Misty Mountains (goblins for those of you who've only seen the movies). A lot of riches in them mountains by the way. My holdings so far are still limited to my starting area plus a few small points west and north of those lines... and of course most of the Misty Mountains. The Dwarves and Dale took a few bits to the extreme north. Of course Sauron has declared me a traitor and all the evil factions hate me. So now this White Wizard fights for the world of men. A world of men that has the Uruk Hai and Warg Riders as their allies...

Isengard facts - While you start with really weak units. Your mid level units are Uruks based on the books. A little bit of armor, but mostly useful as about equal to Gondor's base infantry (militia in game). However, at around turn 60, you are fully able to produce large numbers of Uruk-Hai Heavy Infantry that come straight from the P.J. Movies. Heavy armor and weapons supported by a really high morale score. Isengard's biggest problem for most players is their lack of any kind of heavy cav, in fact their only cav option is the Warg Riders which are best used as a raiding force against enemy lines. If they stick around for any period of time, they die by the score. Isengard's infantry more then make up for this though. Their pikes are epic in ability, so much so that the game designers nerfed them to make things more fair. Even then, the only good way to take them out is with lots of arrows. When it comes to sieges, this is the best army around. For both attacking and defending cities.

Gondor - I control all of the southern lands south of the White Mountains (the mountains between Gondor and Rohan). Plus all of Ithilien, Harad, most of Mordor (soon to be all), a small piece of southern Khand. And a few bits of Eastern Rohan that I took from Mordor and Isengard. I'm a strong ally of Rohan, so much so that we've fought side by side at least a dozen times in less then 100 turns. As a side note I have zero contact with anyone else that I'm not at war with. The Harad and Mordor factions are now dead. Harad was a drawn out fight but without their Mumaks they really aren't that tough. Mordor was brutal though, I fought them over Eastern and Central Ithilien for almost 40 turns. I got lucky and trapped six of their generals in a city and even though it cost me two whole armies, I killed them all. The Dwarves killed two others at some point and then I finally caught up to the Witch-King of Angmar in Eastern Rohan where it took a combined Gondor/Rohan army to kill him and the last two orc generals they had. Even outnumbering them, the Witch-King and his 72 body guards kill 400 of my troops. In all I lost almost 3000 troops in that battle. Good thing for me was that was the last of Mordor's leadership and so the faction died and left a dozen major cities under the control of rabble orcs. They tend to fall rather easy now since without generals their morale is mostly a joke. So with this done, I'm taking a break for 20 or 30 turns to rebuild my forces and build up my cities.

Gondor facts - Gondor starts with the best sword militia in the game and fair archers. The Dwarves are fair in that their armor is good and they have AP, but they are slow and lack good ranged units to begin with. Elves have VERY solid archers but lack the pure numbers of swordsmen that Gondor can turn out. Gondor's opening mix of sword and bow is perfect for city defense. Mordor and Harad attack off from the start but can be easily defeated by gathering Gondor's might at whatever city they are coming after and just letting them attack. Swordsmen are the best wall defense in the game and Gondor has an endless supply of mid-level swordsmen at low-level costs. Gondor also boosts the best Heavy Calvary in the game. The Knights of Gonder and Swan Knights of Dol Amroth are insane. Gondorian Armor plus their high powered charge makes them great for cracking lines of enemy infantry on the battlefield. When attacking enemy cities, your infantry can take the walls and draw the enemy into fighting on one front while your heavy cav runs around crushing anything not designed for breaking cav charges. Gondors biggest failing is their anti-cav ability... they have none! Even their heavy spearmen units aren't trained against cav. While they do have a good reach on them which helps, they lack the "Effective against calvary" bonus that all of the other High level spear units have. The trade off is that Gondor's heavy spearmen are as numerous as their Militia units. So you can build them like a horde. Do not however, rely on them to do any good at offense. While their heavy armor protects them it also wears them down quickly and they fall pretty quickly against swordmen.

[Deepcrush]

Found out a minor problem... Laptops over heat REALLY quick if you fight a bunch of uber battles. My last battle had 14000 troops on it and took about an hour and a half. The battle right after that caused my laptop to over heat and auto shutdown.

Moral of the story, if you fight a big battle. Close the game and give yourself and your computer a break.

[BigJKU316]

Does this run off Rome Total War or MEII Total War?

[shran]

From MEII, but you need a framework of other patches and expansions to run it properly.

[Deepcrush]

Patches come from the main TW site.

[Sionnach Glic]

You'll also need Kingdoms to run it as well, IIRC.

[Deepcrush]

That to...

[Deepcrush]

Okay, update time.

Mordor - is a pain in the ass. While the Ring Wraiths are great as shock troops. Anyone with two plus IQ will just form a wall of infantry and gut you with archers. The Elves, of course, love to do this. The only good way to tie up elven archers is to gather several Ring Wraith Body Guards and charge them at the start of the battle. Giving your Orcs a chance to close ranks with the Elven infantry. Even then, the Elves are going to eat up large numbers of Orcs so be ready for 3 to 1 losses. Personally, I found that a ten unit army mixed between Wraith Bodyguards and Trolls did more damage then three armies of massed infantry. Taking the border cities from Gondor was a bitch, to put it lightly. Mordor starts off with a pretty big area. Lots of rebel cities to the north and west to attack. Though doing so right away is risky. Unlike with the Elves, Gondor, Rohan and Dwarves. Starting Mordor units will get violated in all sorts of unhappy ways if you reach out right away.

Mordor facts - Your cav comes by Wargs and Black Nemordians. The BN's are the cream though. Akin to Bodyguard cav from most games but in high numbers. You can park these guys right in the middle of infantry and they will not only stand their ground but will fight back and deal out some mean hurt. Five of these will crack anything but a spear-wall. Even then, If the spear-wall is three men or less deep, you may still in fact break through on a good charge. For infantry you start with a lot, and I mean a LOT, of worthless fodder. Fitting for Orcs really when you think about it. While you will find some spearmen for fighting cav, most of your forces are going to be rabble. So be ready for a lot of morale issues because they are going to pop up all over. That being said, later on at around turn 50 you can start producing Uruks which are decent infantry and around turn 80 you can produce Armored Trolls (those big mean ones from the attack on Minas Tirith in the movies when you see them come through the gate) which can even fight ON CITY WALLS! YES I'M FOR REAL ON THAT ONE! While they can't climb ladders, they can get up on the walls from the inside of the city. Two units of trolls on the walls and two units of spearmen for blocking the gate will hold any city for you. One of my Armored Troll units scored nearly a thousand kills in a single battle holding the walls of my city. So now its a basic tactic for me that if I know the enemy is coming. I pull my armies out and leave a few trolls to bait them since they only know my basic numbers and not my units. Keep a spy in your city to block their spies and they'll attack your walls thinking that there are only half a dozen units holding the city. The watch the killing start when they find out that those five or six companies are Troll companies. As for Mordor archers, yeah, they suck big time and unless you are fighting an army with mounted archers they really aren't worth it.

[Deepcrush]

Got my Dwarves game to the point where everything is unlocked. Here's the info...

Dwarf game - I own pretty much everything that is in the northern quarter of the map and most of the Misty Mountains. Mostly its about pissing someone off enough that they come at you then beating their and then sieging them. I'll get to way in a bit. Also, the Dwarves are RICH and I mean filthy Bush-Jr just ripped off the whole USA and made out with eight billion dollars rich! Dale is my friend/allies and so are the Woodland Elves (Silvian/Mirkwood Elves). Rohan is just neutral and wants me to stay out of their lands. Since they have nothing for me to mine I'm cool with that. Gondor doesn't even care that I exist which is nice. Mordor fought me for two turns then asked for peace and has since left me alone for the last forty-ish turns. Arnor and the High Elves (elves from the west side of the Misty Mountains) started a war with me really quickly.

Dwarf facts - Don't bother with the really high end infantry. Truth be told, with the slow speed of the dwarves, taking a two handed weapon is just a bad idea. The negitive stat on speed for two handed weapons added to their already low attack speed really hurts the Dwarves more then it helps them. Its fine if you pick a few Heavy Axeman types for some extra city defense, but don't put them with your field armies. The two base units for the Dwarves (Miners who use pickaxes and Warriors who use axe/shield) are great for field armies. Both of them do major hurt when used in numbers, and they come in good numbers for cheap! Also, both are 'effective against armor' (means armor your armor value is cut in half when they hit you). Add this to a fair attack/defense rating on their own, you end up with a large army for not a lot of money. While you're never going to match Orcs in numbers, it does mean that rather then the 5 to 1 numbers the game starts you at you'll find most battles you're only outnumbered 2 to 1. Which makes for easy pickings most of the time.

Dwarf missile units are in general really poor. While Dwarf missiles are 'effective against armor', they have a slow rate of fire and only two types to pick from. Axethrowers which you can use for city defense (nothing else since their range is so short and take forever to fire!) and Crossbowmen which fire at the rate to which you'd expect of crossbows. The crossbows at least have really good range if not great aim. Put them behind your army and since you're always out numbered you're normally going to have an enemy try to encircle you. Once they do, move the crossbowmen into a short range and let them fire free into the enemy. Level crossbows and short range, by Dwarves who are tough enough to withstand a charge even if the enemy turns to attack them, are very nasty. They deal a lot of damage, punch armor, reduce morale and do so quickly.

Dwarf cav... okay really you have none unless you get light cav mercs. Moving on!

Tactics gets special mention for them because with Dwarves you don't get to fight in the typical ways most commanders would like. Unlike every other faction. The Dwarves have no home made cav and only two missile units. Fluid open field battles with any kind of range will be your undoing. Even the best Dwarf general is going to fall apart trying to match a large enemy force on open ground. The only thing you can do is hope to deal out as much hurt as possible before they over take you. If you've used a lot of base units like I pointed to above. Maybe you can save your army from being to overwhelmed. Though a draw with high losses is the best you're going to get, a total rout of your army being the other option. Instead, move your army to and from cities/forts where ever possible. Don't let your armies get caught in the open.

Raiding, mostly useless for all the other races but...!!! When you target a city, use how every many merc cav units you have to move into the region first. Use these guys to raid enemy armies. A raiding army should be small so that its both cheap and tempting for your enemies to attack. Yes I know a raid in Total War games counts as a loss. But in truth, it doesn't really matter. Your win/lose record goes out the window when you own half the world and no one can even dream about taking you on anymore. Also, by raid I mean when you go into battle with your raiding army. A general (dwarves use foot generals) and a few elite units. Pikes, heavy axeman, or maybe some special units. Form to a battle line with your infantry near the map edge. Put your cav way out on the sides, hidden if possible. When you get the enemy to attack you, they have to come to you and force you from the field. If you are near the map edge. They have to go a long long way and you are closer to your point of retreat. Once they charge, then send in your cav to rake their missile units and maybe after that. A little sneak charge at the enemy infantry thats already tied up against your battle line. After this, break off your cav and order your infantry to withdraw from the battle. You general first, followed by your other infantry, leave one unit behind to act as rear guard, they'll get murdered but its okay. Your cav will be okay since they move fast enough to get away from most. Dwarves have good stamina so they don't really take a lot of losses very quickly. High Armor units will also keep these losses down. For this, even in the field you can kill three or four times the number of enemies vs the numbers you lose. Since your main enemies use lots of infantry, this tactic really scores for you. The only race it doesn't work against is Elves. Avoid fighting Elves in non-urban battles at all costs. They will walk to within maximum missile range and just stand there while they pelt you with high power/high RoF/high accuracy arrows.

When you do have to fight, do so to capture cites and always be the one who attacks! Ladders are your friends! Dwarves climb at the same speed as everyone else and ladders are cheap to build. You can build six per turn with a full army stack. In two turns, the max you should risk waiting against a strong enemy thus they rush out to attack you in open field or get help, you can have twelve ladders to attack the enemy from twelve points all at once. Also, I like the four tower/eight ladder combo. Your towers drop a lot of troops all at once which is a good way to hit the enemy to start but they take forever for new troops to climb and get in place. When you send your towers, wait until they are up against the walls. Then order your ladders too rush the walls. When the towers open your ladder troops should also be near the top. This way you are both putting a large first wave against the enemy and opening up the way for rapid support to follow. In the close quarters on city walls, Dwarves are a terrible force. If you hit your enemy from twelve different towers/ladders, they just can't fight you everywhere at once. Wall fighting is the home field advantage zone of Dwarf warfare. Use it to suck up enemy numbers before moving on your enemy from a dozen angles within. Holding the walls are also the best way to win ground city defense battles. Send out a unit to attack enemy rams, and let them come at you with their towers and ladders. Even your base troops will eat up your enemies, this includes elite elves, when it comes to fighting on the walls. Just one of my pickaxe units, the cheapest and lowest level unit in the Dwarf Army, killed 260 elven infantry before their own 80 man fighting force was defeated. I put ten pickaxe units in my cities as their defense and I've lost only one city defense battle out of around dozen plus. Though the battle I lost was when the enemy had three rams and they got through my gate and I only had that one pickaxe unit. There pikes and elites are useful sometimes, but that defeats the purpose of keeping things cheap.

While that was long, if any of you even read it, that was still the short version.

[Tsukiyumi]

Sounds like a badass game. Too bad I can't run it.

[Deepcrush]

Its epic and for all the right reasons! There is a LoTR mod for Rome Total War which can run even if you don't have a graphics card.

[Tsukiyumi]

Okay, not to nitpick, but you can't not have a graphics card.

[Nickswitz]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he means with an integrated graphics card.

[Tsukiyumi]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he means with an integrated graphics card.

So, you still have a card. And?