In the embers of the dominion war

[Granitehewer]

but how long could such a heterozygous alliance last? saying that look at the ufp lol

[Deepcrush]

The UFP isn't an Alliance. Its a gathering of worlds. The truth is that the bulk of the military might of the UFP comes from Humanity. The rest of the races mostly just tag along. Even if they wanted to, they couldn't rise up against SF.

The Klingon Empire isn't what it used to be. A war against the newly uber'd up UFP would just be a blood bath. More likely then not, it would only drive more of the UFP's population into the militarized camp. Which in turn would allow the SF to grow even stronger. It would be a TMP era all over again!

Super Powers
UFP vs Dominion (but they are cut apart by "the mother of all choke points" as Rochey put it).
The UFP is newly militarized with her shipyards turning out super ships while the Dominion is free to replace its losses at will.

Second Rate powers
Klingon Empire, Romulan Empire, Breen Confederacy.
The KE is spent from the DW. The RSE isn't anywhere near as powerful as was once thought. The BC lost its only advantage with the EDW.

Everyone else is down here in the Third Rate box. Even grouped together, the chances of winning a war against the UFP/KE is next to nothing.

[Coalition]

They'd be pretty unhappy, but they'd also be able to do damn all but accept it. The only ones who could potentialy match the UFP are the Dominion, who is now blocked off by the mother of all chokepoints, and the Klingon Empire, who would be able to achieve a pyhrric victory at the very best.

The greatest threat a militarised UFP would face would actually be its own citizens. After a century or so of being safe in the knowledge that they're far more civilised than all those barbaric alien empires, I can't see the UFP's populace taking a militarised stance very well.

There will also be worlds that were conquered/attacked during the Dominion War. Betazed, Earth, Benzar, and others that got hit would tend to vote for more defenses, and higher militarization. They have had a century of peace, trusting Starfleet to protect them, and believing the universe was a safe place, then getting attacked, bombarded, and possible invaded. I'll bet those citizens are wanting some way to know that it won't happen again.

[Vic]

>snip< It would be a TMP era all over again! >snip<

Haleluja to that!

[Granitehewer]

not necessarily 'coalition', their experiences of the horrors of war could in fact breed a more passive outlook, much like the japanese diet (parliament not sushi) today

[Sionnach Glic]

There will also be worlds that were conquered/attacked during the Dominion War. Betazed, Earth, Benzar, and others that got hit would tend to vote for more defenses, and higher militarization. They have had a century of peace, trusting Starfleet to protect them, and believing the universe was a safe place, then getting attacked, bombarded, and possible invaded. I'll bet those citizens are wanting some way to know that it won't happen again.

Given how many times Earth has been on the brink of destruction, yet no one seems interested in more security, I can't see Earth really giving a shit about being hit by a few torpedoes.
Betazed and other worlds that were occupied would likely want greater military spending, but they'd be a very small minority.

[Mikey]

not necessarily 'coalition', their experiences of the horrors of war could in fact breed a more passive outlook, much like the japanese diet (parliament not sushi) today

To be fair, the Japanese "passive," demilitarized policy is due in large part to the wording of the Japanese constitution that the U.S. dictated.

[Granitehewer]

it was in '45, but i don't see any constitutional rejinks by the diet or moves in that direction

[BigJKU316]

There will also be worlds that were conquered/attacked during the Dominion War. Betazed, Earth, Benzar, and others that got hit would tend to vote for more defenses, and higher militarization. They have had a century of peace, trusting Starfleet to protect them, and believing the universe was a safe place, then getting attacked, bombarded, and possible invaded. I'll bet those citizens are wanting some way to know that it won't happen again.

Given how many times Earth has been on the brink of destruction, yet no one seems interested in more security, I can't see Earth really giving a s**t about being hit by a few torpedoes.
Betazed and other worlds that were occupied would likely want greater military spending, but they'd be a very small minority.

I have always thought that what would finally push Earth towards a more military posture would be the succession of events and the end of DS9, the Borg Invasion during First Contact and the Scimitar Incident. In particular I think it is a reasonable assumption to assume that there would be considerable outrage that after all of these incidents Starfleet was basically able to muster all of like 7 ships to deal with the Scimitar.

I would have to think the populace would be receptive to an approach that more intellegently balanced the defense and exploration missions of Starfleet.

[Granitehewer]

happy first post

[Mikey]

Welcome!

I'd like to think you're right, but V'Ger didn't push the UFP toward that posture; the whale probe didn't; the Founder infiltration didn't; the Breen attack on Earth didn't. Bear in mind that just because something makes common sense doesn't necessarily mean it has a place in 'Trek.

[Captain Seafort]

I'd like to think you're right, but V'Ger didn't push the UFP toward that posture; the whale probe didn't;

The Federation was already far more militarised during that period

the Breen attack on Earth didn't.

I would say that it did - look at the size of the fleet that greeted Voyager, compared to the Lakota being the sole ship available in HF/PL.

[BigJKU316]

Welcome!

I'd like to think you're right, but V'Ger didn't push the UFP toward that posture; the whale probe didn't; the Founder infiltration didn't; the Breen attack on Earth didn't. Bear in mind that just because something makes common sense doesn't necessarily mean it has a place in 'Trek.

While that is true I could see where people would view the first two incidents, and possibly even the Borg Events, as something much more akin to a Hurricane or Earthquake than a failure of defense. The Breen incident occurs during a war and by all sources it seems as if the defenders inflicted heavy losses on the attackers. And the Federation has reacted by militarizing itself in the past, within its limited ability to do so that is.

1. After first contact with the Borg plans were drawn up, as were ship designs. It was a confused and disorganized response to be sure that quickly lost focus, but it is clear it did prompt some response.

2. The response to the Dominion threat I find most telling. I would say that the UFP, to the best of its ability, basically reformed Starfleet from what it was into a military force. Given the time they had to do so and the fact that they had to work with pre-build ships that are designed, at least in my view, more as independent cruisers they did a pretty ok job.

I would argue that objective conditions have changed after the Dominion War. You have a very very large number of civilians who will have lost somebody in that conflict. Almost everyone in Starfleet will have known many who died. As far as I can tell this would be the first time in hundreds of years where that would be the case. Into that environment you throw a Romulan Ship that could have destroyed all life on Earth into the mix and I think that at the very least there would be a healthy debate in the UFP about re-organizing Starfleet to deal with ongoing threats, rather than treating every little thing as some sort of emergency.

[Deepcrush]

it was in '45, but i don't see any constitutional rejinks by the diet or moves in that direction

They've in fact been trying to get the Treaty rewritten for a while now. As in longer then I've been alive. The United States Congress has refused.

[Granitehewer]

i have a dirty joke about that but will inbox it instead of some point