Invasion of the United States

[Deepcrush]

I don't see this as a conquest scenario, I see it as a knock US's d**k in the dirt so that the US can't contribute to the war. Then Great Britain is more likely to fall because of the lack of supplies coming from the US and the Commonwealth being out of position to help.

Thats pretty much it.

[USSEnterprise]

I think it would fail badly. Attacking the US would be unlike anything the Germans had ever done. They wouldn't be able to implement the Blitzkrieg very well, air support would be close to nil, supplies would be scarce, and fighting would take place over area's of hundreds of miles. If they committed that many men to the US, Eastern Europe may become more difficult to hold as well. The US is huge, I just don't see the German's doing much. Even if they attack Washington, it would just be a rallying point for the rest of the nation. The attack on Pearl Harbor was suppose discourage the US and look how that turned out, an attack on the US mainland would invoke even more hostile actions in my opinion. Just my humble opinion, I don't consider myself to be a history guru, so correct me if my facts are wrong.

[Vic]

The forces would more than likely be sacrificial and a positive out come would make that worth it. Take your forces out of France, the Brits are in no way capable of landing an effective force on the Continent anyway. Just look at their ventures before Torch, break even to abject failure. Also remember that they were somewhat tied up in Norway at the time, not to mention North Africa and real soon after that the Balkans. All of these before Dec of '41.

[Monroe]

Okay furball... the OP says USA v Germany. Also, the river monitors in Turtledove's books were shallow water boats and fully unable to advance across open sea. So they're useless for this matter.

That's why you have things like cargo containers that can assemble those boats. Its an important enough tool in this make believe war. They have key lock factories. Not that hard to believe within a month you could get several assembled. You can do it by air only but you can't get the kind of accuracy that a river boat cruiser could.

[Monroe]

I think it would fail badly. Attacking the US would be unlike anything the Germans had ever done. They wouldn't be able to implement the Blitzkrieg very well, air support would be close to nil, supplies would be scarce, and fighting would take place over area's of hundreds of miles. If they committed that many men to the US, Eastern Europe may become more difficult to hold as well. The US is huge, I just don't see the German's doing much. Even if they attack Washington, it would just be a rallying point for the rest of the nation. The attack on Pearl Harbor was suppose discourage the US and look how that turned out, an attack on the US mainland would invoke even more hostile actions in my opinion. Just my humble opinion, I don't consider myself to be a history guru, so correct me if my facts are wrong.

You're right. Reason I think this plan is doomed for failure. Americans don't react well to bullying. I think your best option though is to cut America in half which requires New Orleans in German hands.

[Sionnach Glic]

It's tough to say whether or not they'd actualy give in. Americans have never experienced something like the Blitz. Imagine if the Luftwaffe managed to carpet-bomb New York. The death toll would be through the roof.

If an invading force managed to move quickly enough to gain a large enough part of the country with heavy civillian casualties, I think most of the US populace would be quite happy to sign a cease-fire, particularly if they were given their land back.

That said, this scenario is way too vague for us to really work with. Is it just the Whermacht attacking, or does it have support from the Luftwaffe? Is Germany combating any other countries at this time? What quantity of troops, equipment and supplies reached the US?

[stitch626]

Also, does Germany have help from an alian race from the future who want to change the course of history?

[Captain Seafort]

Also, does Germany have help from an alian race from the future who want to change the course of history?

They must have some serious extra terrestrial support from somewhere, past, present or future, because that's the only way they'd have any chance of even reaching the US, let alone carry out an opposed landing.

[Vic]

It doesn't matter...........never mind.

[Monroe]

Also, does Germany have help from an alian race from the future who want to change the course of history?

Well, while we're on the topic of Harry Turtledove...

[Deepcrush]

How the Germans arrived, they set this plan in motion instead of trying to attack England (Battle of Britain). They gather two dozen large passenger liners plus as many cargo ships to transport troops. They wait until a break in the Eastern Seaboards Storm Season and then land. The US has early warning but only a matter of hours.

Forces, Germany lands twenty divisions. Five of which are Armored Divisions. They also bring twelve hundred aircraft, split 800 fighters/400 light bombers. Since Germany has no carriers they have to use airbases for their planes. This means solid ground is a must find for them.

Supplies, three months of food and about as much in fuel. However, taking over supply depots or production centers in the US could be a wise idea. Bringing supplies from Europe is also a possibility if you can find a way to manage it.

While I like Harry Turtledove, a lot of the things he writes are impossible so I'm not looking to add his work into a topic that already stretches reality so much.

[Sionnach Glic]

Turtledove's not great, but he's far from the worst.
If you want bad alternate history, try Harrison. I'll never forget his American Civil War series. That stuff was hilariously bad. I particularly liked the bit where the USS Monitor sank the HMS Warrior.

[Deepcrush]

Turtledove is fun fiction.

[Sionnach Glic]

I'd dispute that at times. Turtledove's great at coming up with intriguing concepts, and many of his one-off books are quite good. When he writes a series, however, it all seems to fall apart. For example, his World War series (aliens invade Earth during WW2) was a great idea for a story, but it became increasingly tough to slog through all the books as the series went on.

[Mikey]

800 fighters/400 light bombers.

This might be an issue. Chances are that the "light bombers they'd use for these purposes are Ju-87's. Stukas, when used in a situation without complete Luftwaffe air superiority, were absolute sitting ducks. Now, you've got 800 fighters to both try and establish air superiority over the places where airfields are to be built/consolidate beachheads, AND try to provide escort/cover for for the Stukas? Even the limited capabilities of the USAAC at the time, without the benefit of the Mustang or Thunderbolt, would decimate the Ju-87 forces.

Plus, if some of those 800 fighters were Bf-109's, you've got to figure 20% of those are going to be lost simply from trying to land.