Specialized Galaxy Primary Hulls

[Teaos]

Tom's degree was specificaly stated to have been in biochemistry. Not much use there.

Ahhh.. no. He was stated to have sat 1! paper in it in his early years. That was the whole point of him becoming the Doctors assistant, to highlight they had no one else better qualified than a first term bio student.

Tom's speciality would have been in other things, most likely something flight or mechanical related.

Areas that weren't his speciality? You mean like weapons, electronics, power systems, warp drive, fuel containment, nacelles, sensors, targetting systems, life support, artificial gravity, computers, control units, communications equipment, navigation systems, etc, etc, etc?

Weapons were covered by 7 and Tuvok, and its not hard to draw a design going "This is where the weapons will be"

Electronics is something he seemed to have a rather good grasp on. As is power systems. He might not be able to build a warpcore for a shuttle, but he sure as hell would be able to work out the right sized core for it and leave it to someone else to sort out.

Fuel containment? Add 2 anti matter pods... check. Wow you really need 4 years of study for that.

Nacelles, Tom: "We want this ship to go X fast, have Y agility and be Z sized. Well looks like we need the Binford 6100 Shuttle Nacelles!"

You seem to be working under the illusion Tom needs to know how to BUILD all this crap, no. He just needs to have a basic understanding of it and then think of a clever way to tie it all together, something a pilot would be good at.

Nelix ran and maintained his own ship, which would require a working knowledge of everything you just mentioned, Tom would obviously have far better knowledge than that hedgehog!

You think car designers can build a Transmition? Or do they just know they different types out there and pick one they need and fit it into their design?

[Tyyr]

Nacelles, Tom: "We want this ship to go X fast, have Y agility and be Z sized. Well looks like we need the Binford 6100 Shuttle Nacelles!"

Just don't let Tim install them and you'll be fine.

[Mikey]

Add the fact that they seamlessly integrated alien tech (Borg) plus built it so quickly even though a GCS - presumably better equipped than an Intrepid - can't replicate a hatch cover... Ted Williams (the legendary baseball player) was a ggreat pilot in both WWII and Korea, but do you think he could build an operational P-51 in his garage, much less design a new plane?

[Teaos]

I'm not contesting the time frame, 2 days is retarded. I'm just saying Tom having the basics of the design drawn uo isnt so far fetched.

[Mikey]

Right, but I also think that the "basics of the design" are a lot more basic than you think.

[Praeothmin]

Concerning ship building, people today can buy parts and plans allowing them to built "classic" cars.
Sure, they need to know how to fit things, but please keep in mind that while today, a non-fitting fender may need to be cut using a blowtorch, then put the two sections back together, in ST, all you need to do is to go to the replicator and ask for the parts of the correct size.
It would be fairly easy for Tom to draw the ship like he wants it, bring it to the Holodeck, and request that the computer create a shuttle with the hull as Tom drew it, and make it controlled by the manual controls.
All he has to do then is to "tweak" the design if he wants more powerful weapons, shields, but he'd be starting from a complete vehicule...

[Kevsha]

more or less all of us drive cars and know the basics of design but no one here could build one from scratch. i went to school for 2 years to work on cars and have been doing it for many more, i can't build a car from scratch, even given the proper equipment and design specifications let alone designing a new one and going from nothing to an operational vehicle in no time at all.

one could assume from the design aspect that the holodeck would be a helpful tool think back to the TNG episode therre they are in the holodeck describing that surgury table to the computer and the computer interprets what they are saying and creates the table based on thier given perameters. i'm sure they could have done something similar in the design process

the design and production of the ship is not that unplausible but given the complexity size and sophistication of the ship it should have taken many months if not more than a year to build on a ship with very limited recources and stuck very far from home. the fact that they did it in such a short amoutn of tome is the one of the laziest bits of writing i have ever seen..... not that you should expect any more from voyager....

Concerning ship building, people today can buy parts and plans allowing them to built "classic" cars.
Sure, they need to know how to fit things, but please keep in mind that while today, a non-fitting fender may need to be cut using a blowtorch, then put the two sections back together, in ST, all you need to do is to go to the replicator and ask for the parts of the correct size

apples and oranges, when you order that kind of stuff someone else has done all the measuring, all the engineering work. putting a fender on is akin to putting a seat in the deltaflyer. think designing and machining our own engine block and all the parts, steering system, chassi, all the insturmentation, every piece of sheet metal. now imagine doing that with a modernday jet fighter. now imagind something 3000x more advanced and complicated.... now imaging doing it in 2 days. unless the vrew of voyager had a modified genesis device that created functional advaced spaceships from slag rather than creating organic matter out of rock....

[Mikey]

in ST, all you need to do is to go to the replicator and ask for the parts of the correct size.

In addition to what Kev says, which is absolutley true, this part is dubious at best. As I mentioned, the GCS - ostensibly better outfitted than an Intrepid-class - was incapable of replicating a hatch cover. Are they going to be able to replicate parts of such exacting tolerance as ship components if they can't make a manhole cover?

[stitch626]

Voyager outclasses the GCS in several ways. Why couldn't it simply have newer replicators than the GCS of 4 years ago.

And everyone keeps using examples of people building stuff to suggest it being unrealistic that Tom designed the Delta Flyer. This is foolish. I have never taken a course in car design, but I know the basics and could design a car. Never could I imagine building it, but I could design it. This ability comes from knowing basic physics and seeing several other working cars in my lifetime. I don't see it as a stretch for Tom to be able to design a shuttle. He's seen hundreds and flown them. He also would know a lot of basic stuff (considering they teach kids calculus, physics isn't far behind).

Now, for Voyager to build the thing in 2 days, that is unrealistic. But Tom designing it, not a problem.

[Kevsha]

I have never taken a course in car design, but I know the basics and could design a car. Never could I imagine building it, but I could design it. This ability comes from knowing basic physics and seeing several other working cars in my lifetime. I don't see it as a stretch for Tom to be able to design a shuttle. He's seen hundreds and flown them. He also would know a lot of basic stuff (considering they teach kids calculus, physics isn't far behind).

Now, for Voyager to build the thing in 2 days, that is unrealistic. But Tom designing it, not a problem.

no you couldn't, you could cartainly draw a nice picture of a car, but thats about it. you have no idea the complexity of modern day cars. you cannot design something with no idea of the engineering behind it and expect it to work. even in reough design states in creating a car engineers have a good handle of the dimentions of engines, transmissions, suspension, and how all those things are going to work together. that is what designing is.

[stitch626]

you have no idea the complexity of modern day cars. you cannot design something with no idea of the engineering behind it and expect it to work.

Actually, I do have an idea. And I never said I have no clue of the engineering behind cars. I know a lot about engineering and about automotive design. Just because I've never took a course in automotive design does not mean I don't understand it.

The Wright brothers were not experts on aerodynamics. They made bicycles. And yet, they were able to design and construct a "flying machine".

[Mikey]

Right. "Design" means more than just a concept for the appearance/body/chassis. Could you design an IC engine that's appropriate for the vehicle? If you can, what rear axle ratios do you offer? What ratio do you use for your overdrive gear? Do you know the advantages and disadvantages to either choice of pushrod vs. OHC designs?

Do you use an independent rear suspension or a multilink? Maybe a torsion bar?

What width tires do you use? Or profile? Standard all-season, summer-only, directional, or low rolling-resistance?

How do you build your spaceframe? Where do you put the pretensioners and load-limiters for the seat belts?

Do you carburate, fuel inject, or direct inject? Etc., etc.

I'm not trying to beat anyone up, I'm just pointing out that even extreme prowess in operating a vehicle - even combined with a passing knowledge of the theory of that vehicle's construction - is in no way adequate for designing and building a vehicle.

[stitch626]

Right. "Design" means more than just a concept for the appearance/body/chassis. Could you design an IC engine that's appropriate for the vehicle? If you can, what rear axle ratios do you offer? What ratio do you use for your overdrive gear? Do you know the advantages and disadvantages to either choice of pushrod vs. OHC designs?

Do you use an independent rear suspension or a multilink? Maybe a torsion bar?

What width tires do you use? Or profile? Standard all-season, summer-only, directional, or low rolling-resistance?

How do you build your spaceframe? Where do you put the pretensioners and load-limiters for the seat belts?

Do you carburate, fuel inject, or direct inject? Etc., etc.

I'm not trying to beat anyone up, I'm just pointing out that even extreme prowess in operating a vehicle - even combined with a passing knowledge of the theory of that vehicle's construction - is in no way adequate for designing and building a vehicle.

First of all, no complete vehicle is designed by one person. And designs change drastically as production goes on.

As for your questions, can't answer them till I start on the actual vehicle. Though for your last one, I'd go with carburetors, as I have more knowledge of them than fuel injection. I also older cars.

And I'll mention it again, the Write brothers were bicycle engineers and were able to make something very different.

[Kevsha]

you are correct they did, they made a 12 second flight after 3+ years of designing and failures. they also had a strong understanding of the engineering behind it. this flying machine served no other purpose than to prove that it could be done. It was also not an interstellar spacecraft that went from an idea to a functional vehicle in 2 days. apples and oranges.

Actually, I do have an idea. And I never said I have no clue of the engineering behind cars. I know a lot about engineering and about automotive design. Just because I've never took a course in automotive design does not mean I don't understand it.

you right it was presumptuious of me to presume you didn't. but an idea and a rough understanding do not build a car. it takes teams of engineers each specializing in specific areas and months of testing on the computer and in real life to design a successful automobile. i can tell you when every arbitrary piece on a car does and tell you roughly how it works and why its there and i understand the physics behind it all, and i don't think i could design a functional car from scratch. its like taking the crew of an aircraft carrier a bunch of raw materials and machining equipment and askeng them to design and build the USA's nest air supiriority fighter.

I'd go with carburetors, as I have more knowledge of them than fuel injection. I also older cars.

right there you already built a sub par vehicle that cannot match the reliability, performance, and efficiancy of a modern car

[stitch626]

right there you already built a sub par vehicle that cannot match the reliability, performance, and efficiancy of a modern car

Actually, there are several carburetor cars that have better performance than "modern" autos. And there were a few that could be as efficient. The problem was that most had huge V-8 engines (at least in the US) and were made of very heavy materials.

Also, nowhere was it said that the goal was to make a modern car. I go with what I prefer.

but an idea and a rough understanding do not build a car.

Neither does a perfect set of blueprints.

It was also not an interstellar spacecraft that went from an idea to a functional vehicle in 2 days. apples and oranges

We aren't arguing about Voyager building the Flyer (at least I'm not). We're arguing about Tom designing it.


You seem to not understand that something can be designed without any construction taking place. You keep mentioning building it, but construction takes a whole different set of skills and materials. I certainly couldn't build a car, simply because I have no metal shop skills... or equipment.