That's the idea behind thrusters, to control the direction.stitch626 wrote:What the thrusters control is pitch, bank, and yaw. Using them to control the direction of travel in its entirey is wasteful.ChakatBlackstar wrote:Except you'd be using ores as a method of propulsion. On a starship the RCS thrusters used to control the direction of travel at sublight speed. That's canon. If you cut impulse the thruster can still be used to control drift.stitch626 wrote:Using thrusters in intersteller space for travel is like using ores on an aircraft carrier.
WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
What I'm saying is: all thrusters can practically do in deep space is control the direction of pointing, not the direction of movement. Say a ship is drifting in a northward direction and they want to go east. Using only thrusters, they would have to turn the ship (which is a rotation and does not change the direction of movement, and is not really a problem) and then stop the ship from moving in the north direction and start it moving in the east direction. It may not seem like a big deal but the fuel costs would be enormous.
It would be like using a lego propeller to move a real life boat. It is inefficient.
It would be like using a lego propeller to move a real life boat. It is inefficient.
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
Exactly. Thrusters would control the facing, but actually accelerating - meaning changing either the speed or direction component of velocity - with thrusters and not impulse engines would be ridiculously impractical, if even possible at all.
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
Well, not a problem for shuttle craft, but for a starship...
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
If thruster power was in proportion to the size of the ship, it wouldn't be a problem. They wouldn't be moving very fast, but the idea is they used impulse to get up to speed, then they let the ship drift with impulse power set to minimum or off to reduce the amount of interference on sensors.stitch626 wrote:Well, not a problem for shuttle craft, but for a starship...
Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
But there is no proof that impulse engines interfere with sensors. And you may not have seen my post a bit higher, thrusters are fine for changing direction of pointing but not good for changing direction of movement.
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
How many times does it have to be pointed out that you have not proven that impulse engnies emit interference for the subspace sensors? And before you say it "subspace sensors should recieve interference from subspace systems" is not proof.If thruster power was in proportion to the size of the ship, it wouldn't be a problem. They wouldn't be moving very fast, but the idea is they used impulse to get up to speed, then they let the ship drift with impulse power set to minimum or off to reduce the amount of interference on sensors.
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
How should I put it then...from what we've seen in Star Trek the sensors search for energy right? So the energy emitted by the ship would show up on the scanners. That takes up computer computation that could be used analyzing signals further out. And you can't just rewrite the code to ignore your own ship's emmissions because that could ingnore similar emissions by accident, or ignore someone or something hiding in it's shadow. By reducing the energy output it reduces the energy showing up on the scanner, making it easier to spot other energy signatures.Rochey wrote:How many times does it have to be pointed out that you have not proven that impulse engnies emit interference for the subspace sensors? And before you say it "subspace sensors should recieve interference from subspace systems" is not proof.If thruster power was in proportion to the size of the ship, it wouldn't be a problem. They wouldn't be moving very fast, but the idea is they used impulse to get up to speed, then they let the ship drift with impulse power set to minimum or off to reduce the amount of interference on sensors.
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
Then why have they never once in the entire show turned off their engines to scan for another ship, even when doing so should, by your logic, have been advantageous? Face it: we have no indication that engines interfere with sensors, and plenty of indication that they don't.
Ergo, engines do not cause interference in sensors. Case closed.
Ergo, engines do not cause interference in sensors. Case closed.
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
FYI, when you go "Case Closed" that makes you look like an asshole, not to mention it increases the chances of me taking up the arguement.Rochey wrote:Then why have they never once in the entire show turned off their engines to scan for another ship, even when doing so should, by your logic, have been advantageous? Face it: we have no indication that engines interfere with sensors, and plenty of indication that they don't.
Ergo, engines do not cause interference in sensors. Case closed.
And while we haven't seen any indication other then this one case with the Saratoga. But think about it, most of the ships we see on a regular basis were eitheer to of the line starships like the Enterprise, or 100 years more advanced where sensors would be far more advanced.
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
Blackstar it would really help your case if, when asked to provide evidence of something, or when someone makes a solid case against your position., you didn't go off on one of these woe-is-me tangents that do nothing except make you look like a bad loser. All you're doing is giving off extremely strong "I'm getting the sh*t kicked out of me and I'm trying to distract everyone from that fact" vibes.ChakatBlackstar wrote:*snip waffle*
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
I have no idea what you're talking about. You must be imagining thingsCaptain Seafort wrote:Blackstar it would really help your case if, when asked to provide evidence of something, or when someone makes a solid case against your position., you didn't go off on one of these woe-is-me tangents that do nothing except make you look like a bad loser. All you're doing is giving off extremely strong "I'm getting the sh*t kicked out of me and I'm trying to distract everyone from that fact" vibes.ChakatBlackstar wrote:*snip waffle*
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
I'll say it more simply then: shut the f*ck up before you make yourself look even more stupid than you already do.ChakatBlackstar wrote:I have no idea what you're talking about. You must be imagining things
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
Does it look like I give a damn? The case is closed, regardless of what you think.FYI, when you go "Case Closed" that makes you look like an asshole,
Which makes you look pretty damn stupid when you do so and don't have any evidence. Which is pretty much all the time.not to mention it increases the chances of me taking up the arguement.
Wow, what brilliantly circular logic.And while we haven't seen any indication other then this one case with the Saratoga.
You: "The Saratoga had its engines off."
Us: "Why?"
You: "Because the engines interfere with sensors."
Us: "Prove it."
You: "The Saratoga had its engines off."
What part of PROVE YOUR CLAIMS do you have trouble understanding? Either provide evidence, or stop being stubborn and concede the point.But think about it, most of the ships we see on a regular basis were eitheer to of the line starships like the Enterprise, or 100 years more advanced where sensors would be far more advanced
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Re: WTF? Dolphins and whales on the E-D?
Perhaps you should do something constructive for a change.I'll say it more simply then: shut the f*ck up before you make yourself look even more stupid than you already do
Stubborn to the last I see. I've never been good at explaining basic stuff, and you're clearly too stubborn to even look at the possibility, so this conversation will probably end up in one of the usual circle arguments. So to save time, I'll let it go.Rochey wrote:Does it look like I give a damn? The case is closed, regardless of what you think.FYI, when you go "Case Closed" that makes you look like an asshole,
Which makes you look pretty damn stupid when you do so and don't have any evidence. Which is pretty much all the time.not to mention it increases the chances of me taking up the arguement.
Wow, what brilliantly circular logic.And while we haven't seen any indication other then this one case with the Saratoga.
You: "The Saratoga had its engines off."
Us: "Why?"
You: "Because the engines interfere with sensors."
Us: "Prove it."
You: "The Saratoga had its engines off."
What part of PROVE YOUR CLAIMS do you have trouble understanding? Either provide evidence, or stop being stubborn and concede the point.But think about it, most of the ships we see on a regular basis were eitheer to of the line starships like the Enterprise, or 100 years more advanced where sensors would be far more advanced
Perhaps you, Rochey, can explain for us then why the Saratoga didn't move away from the probe if it's impulse drive was on. Logically if you encounter a potential threat like that you'd reverse course and study the data to decide on your next move, not fly right at it. This suggests that for whatever reason the impulse drive was offline. Or the captain was an incompetent idiot.