Sociological Organisation - Klingons

SolkaTruesilver · Post by **SolkaTruesilver** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:22 pm

I think the main reason I loved so much DS9 is that the political organisations existing in Star Trek matured. You no longer had random ranks/species/bureaucrat thrown into the story. You had a somewhat coherence about things.

Since I don't know anybody else on the internet that is as Trekky knowledgeable - or just plain reasonnable, I think it would be a fun excercice to draw coherent political, economic and sociological structures on species we have a lot of informations about (and for the sake of argumentation, we WON'T DO THE FEDERATION! I don't have any idea how their economy may run!!!)

Is accepted upon all things canon - except things that are blatantly out of coherence (I don't have any exemple, but I am sure we all agree there are many). Book material is accepted if said book is strongly in accord with general canon, and the general flavour of the book is about the specie you are extracting informations about (exemple: The Left Hand of Destiny is purely about Klingons, and is very very respectful of canon in most aspect.)

We have to draw a coherent and logical society, with as less holes as possible in our speculations.

SolkaTruesilver · Post by **SolkaTruesilver** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:24 pm

(post left to add whatever we'll be able to create)

SolkaTruesilver · Post by **SolkaTruesilver** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:30 pm

First, the Klingon. I think the most important thing about their political structure is the Noble Houses. The High council seems to be made of the 20 most powerful House Leader, which seems to be inspired by a feodalistic-japan Regency Council.

I guess one's House power is measure in term of Troops, ships and land (in order to feed their own troop, as said in The Left Hand of Destiny). And honor - specially honor - . One House can be on the Council while a bigger house is not can be a consequence of the Smaller house having a better reputation - more honor or such -.

I am still struggling about how Klingons are treating subject worlds within their Empire. I remember that the StarFleet Command manual said that the Klingons established new Noble Houses on these world from their best soldiers. I need to fetch that manual..

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:34 pm

This is a hard one to judge. Klingon culture has changed greatly since the end of the Dominion War. I think you need to declare a specific time frame.

SolkaTruesilver · Post by **SolkaTruesilver** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:40 pm

What do you mean, it "has changed"?

(and since we have most informations about that era, I'll say the Klingons from TOS up to DS9. They must not have changed that much of their political situation)

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:54 pm

I have to strongly disagree with that statement. I find a very high amount of change in the KE between TOS and the end of DS9. Tactics, politics, economy and even behavior has changed over time.

Post by **Teaos** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:56 pm

Also the fact that their homeworld had some sort of natural disaster and almost crippled them.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:47 pm

SolkaTruesilver wrote:What do you mean, it "has changed"?

(and since we have most informations about that era, I'll say the Klingons from TOS up to DS9. They must not have changed that much of their political situation)

TOS - Virtually identical to Federation humans, just more ruthless.

TNG - Started the change from being ruthless humans to religious/warrior fanatics.

DS9 - Full on space barbarians, to the extent that they abandon any rational tactics and charge in with blades and ram ships.

Through ENT into it and we discover that they actually went from fanatical morons to Humans set to bad then back into retards.

Reliant121 · Post by **Reliant121** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:09 pm

If we look directly into the TOS compared to DS9/TNG Klingons, aside from the obvious physical changes, the Klingons of TOS were calculating, cunning and ruthless. Almost like what we now know as Romulans, only with more balls. But when we take the DS9/TNG version of Klingons, they were savage yet honour bound thugs that served to destroy anything hostile. They were agressive and confrontational, Outrighting opposing everything they could and fighting even if they knew they had no hope. The TOS Klingons would withdraw if they knew it was hopeless.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:55 pm

To sum the Klingons up:

TOS: Cold, calculating and ruthless enemies of the Federation. Very smart, and cunning.

TNG: Vikings in space.

Post by **Mikey** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:44 am

All that may be true, but in DS9 the Klingons developed (or finally showed) a sense of cunning and subtlety regarding personal gain, politics, and ambition - as well as fleet/ship-to-ship combat, if not in ground-pounding actions. Gowron certianly knew how to spin events to his own advantage; Lursa and Betor (sp.?) were able to finagle Romulan assistance which wouldn't have been detected without Fed intervention; etc. And Kurn's trick with the star's corona certainly is worhty of more than the "space viking" sobriquet.

Post by **Teaos** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:06 am

They have a fighting culture but that doesnt mean they cant be smart about it.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:53 am

DS9 is when they finally began to show skill in mass for combat. That is since they seemed to lose it all between TOS and TNG.

Post by **Teaos** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:04 pm

We didnt really see enough of them in TNG to make a good call about them. DS9 we saw them as a whole and what they can do.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:06 pm

Deepcrush wrote:DS9 is when they finally began to show skill in mass for combat. That is since they seemed to lose it all between TOS and TNG.

DS9 is when they started using Bat'leths almost exclusively - look at the DS9 boarding action in WotW. The Klingons certainly retained their skill in ship-to-ship combat, but all hint of competance on the ground disappeared. Admittedly this occured with all species in TNG+ Trek, but the Klingons were particularly badly affected.