Why do the Borg move so slowly?

[Sionnach Glic]

Snippy

Oh, I do agree with you there. I was pointing out the stupidity that Blackstar's "they don't care enough to do it" would lead to. The Borg certainly have enough inteligence to realise they would need some defence against KE weapons if the enemy started using them en masse. What I was pointing out is that they would be in quite a bit of trouble on the ground where they not to equip troops with KE shields.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

I don't think it's possible for me to explain the Borg's actions so that Rochey can understand it. I would like to make it clear that Rochey did not beat me, but that it was his Old Man Syndrome that wore me down to the point of not wanting to argue anymore.

[Sionnach Glic]

I don't think it's possible for me to explain the Borg's actions so that Rochey can understand it.

Funny, I don't see anyone else here backing up what you've been saying. So it seems like I'm not the only one who believes you're wrong.
I've shown you multiple times that taking a stance where you don't give a damn about your troop's survivability is idiotic.
I've shown you multiple times that the Borg obviously do care about protecting their troops.
I've also shown that the Borg do not equip drones with KE shields as standard, which is what this whole debate was started over.

You have done precisely nothing, but repeat "but they don't care!" despite evidence to the contrary.

I would like to make it clear that Rochey did not beat me,

Yeah, just keep telling yourself that. Come back when you have evidence for your claims.

but that it was his Old Man Syndrome that wore me down to the point of not wanting to argue anymore.

"Old Man Syndrome"?
Here's some advice, Blackstar; occasionaly, people who are older, more experienced and more informed on a particular subject than you are are correct. I've replied to every single point you've raised, and backed everything I've said up with evidence and examples. You have done none of that, and simply repeated your favoured conclusion while ignoring evidence to the contrary.

You want to end the debate? Fine, you just need to say so, but don't think this parting shot of yours is going to fool anyone watching the debate into thinking you scored some sort of victory.

[mlsnoopy]

Didn't Worf made a Ke shild from a combadge. So for the Borg to modify their shilds to guard against a KE shouldn't be to problematic. And don't they empoy the standart tactic lose a few drones and than outhers are protected against the weapon. Did KE weapons ever killed more drones than phasers.

[Sionnach Glic]

You're a bit late, Snoopy, those were discussed already.

[mlsnoopy]

It takes time to read the whole discusion.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

"Old Man Syndrome"?
Here's some advice, Blackstar; occasionaly, people who are older, more experienced and more informed on a particular subject than you are are correct

That's not what Old Man Syndrome is. Although that might partially apply to you since you don't know what Old Man Syndrome is. It's basically along the lines of can't think outside the box, can't plan more then 3 steps ahead, too stubborn to realize he might be wrong. You know, the generic image of old people.

[Captain Seafort]

too stubborn to realize he might be wrong.

That bit's you to a T. Rochey and Mikey have demonstrated repeatedly that drones fulfill the role of soldiers, regardless of Borg political objectives. They've also demonstrated that the poor tactics and force protection the Borg employ are strategically unsound.

You accuse Rochey of being "unable to think outside the box". You fail to recognise that that's the advantage Rochey holds over you - you fail to realise that their different political aims do not exempt the Borg from the principles of strategy, and so fail to understand why Borg infantry tactics are stupid.

[Captain Seafort]

too stubborn to realize he might be wrong.

That bit's you to a T. Rochey and Mikey have demonstrated repeatedly that drones fulfill the role of soldiers, regardless of Borg political objectives. They've also demonstrated that the poor tactics and force protection the Borg employ are strategically unsound.

You accuse Rochey of being "unable to think outside the box". You fail to recognise that that's the advantage Rochey holds over you - you fail to realise that their different political aims do not exempt the Borg from the principles of strategy, and so fail to understand why Borg infantry tactics are stupid.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

You accuse Rochey of being "unable to think outside the box". You fail to recognise that that's the advantage Rochey holds over you - you fail to realise that their different political aims do not exempt the Borg from the principles of strategy, and so fail to understand why Borg infantry tactics are stupid.

Wait, are you saying that Rochey has an advantage because he isn't thinking outside the box?

And I understand why Borg infantry tactics appear stupid to us, but I am failing to explain how they aren't stupid.

[Captain Seafort]

Wait, are you saying that Rochey has an advantage because he isn't thinking outside the box?

Yes - he realises what you don't, that the basic principles of strategy are universal, and apply to the Borg as much as to anyone else.

And I understand why Borg infantry tactics appear stupid to us, but I am failing to explain how they aren't stupid.

Correct - you're failing because you're attempting to sustain an unsustainable argument.

[Sionnach Glic]

That's not what Old Man Syndrome is.

Oh, I wasn't trying to guess what it was, I was just giving you some advice.

It's basically along the lines of can't think outside the box, can't plan more then 3 steps ahead, too stubborn to realize he might be wrong.

I can think outside the box just fine, and have no problems. But that has nothing to do with this.
Since we're on the subject of throwing vague names at each other's style of debating, let me show you one that fits you perfectly. It's called the Wall Of Ignorance. How does this work, and how does this apply to you?

Step 1: Well, first you start at the conclusion, rather than reaching it (in this case, that Borg are uncaring about losses).
Step 2: Next, disregard all evidence to the contrary (check).
Step 3: When faced with someone showing you this evidence, simply reword your original conclusion, and disregard the evidence.
Step 4: Repeat untill your oponent gets too annoyed, and leaves (okay, didn't happen here. But that's because I don't give up when I'm right).
Step 5: Claim victory (again, check, despite you giving up!).

Now, that applies to you far more than this "old man syndrone" applies to me.

too stubborn to realize he might be wrong.

Pot, meet Kettle!

And I understand why Borg infantry tactics appear stupid to us, but I am failing to explain how they aren't stupid.

Yes, you've failed horrificaly. Why? Because you're trying to justify something that cannot be justified. The sort of thing I've pointed out applies to everyone, everywhere, regardless of however they view their troops. History has shown time and time again that ignoring losses and considering them of no importance is one of the greatest strategic blunders you can possibly make. The Borg aren't exempt from this simply because they act differently, and have different objectives.

[Mikey]

The semantics of whether we call drones "soldiers" or not, or the Collective's ultimate aims, are actually tangential to the point, and continually referencing those academic issues are actually underscoring the lack of a convincing argument for having, but not using, KE shields on drones.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

And I understand why Borg infantry tactics appear stupid to us, but I am failing to explain how they aren't stupid.

Yes, you've failed horrificaly. Why? Because you're trying to justify something that cannot be justified. The sort of thing I've pointed out applies to everyone, everywhere, regardless of however they view their troops. History has shown time and time again that ignoring losses and considering them of no importance is one of the greatest strategic blunders you can possibly make. The Borg aren't exempt from this simply because they act differently, and have different objectives.

So you're saying you're smarter then the entire Borg collective? It's either that, or the Borg tactics actually have a reason behind them that I haven't been able to explain. Unless you've got a third option, these are the only two possiblities that I can figure.

[Captain Seafort]

So you're saying you're smarter then the entire Borg collective?

Correct - the Borg have demonstrated remarkable stupidity in their use of infantry, both tactically (lurching around like zombies) and operationally (ignoring intruders until they start blowing things up).