"Message in a Bottle"

[Tsukiyumi]

Agreed. It seems like a gimmick design that they were just experimenting with, honestly. I imagine it's success would probably spur Starfleet to put it into production anyways.

[Sionnach Glic]

The Prometheus is quite clearly a powerful ship. No one here is debating that fact. What we're saying is that removing the MVAM and either building one large ship or three smaller ships is a far superior design for many reasons.

[Thorin]

I was under the impression that you, Seafort and Thorin were arguing that the Prometheus wasn't a powerful design.

Where did anyone say, or even imply, that?

[Blackstar the Chakat]

I was under the impression that you, Seafort and Thorin were arguing that the Prometheus wasn't a powerful design.

Where did anyone say, or even imply, that?

That you despise the very thing it was designed for?

[Tsukiyumi]

I was under the impression that you, Seafort and Thorin were arguing that the Prometheus wasn't a powerful design.

Where did anyone say, or even imply, that?

Well, I don't know, Thorin. Maybe making dozens of statements claiming it to be a waste of resources, and poorly designed could lead people to believe that you think the design is useless?


I know Bridge Commander is far from a useful judge of canon, but it was much easier to beat a GCS in MVAM mode because it couldn't ever turn its full firepower against any one section; they're just too manuverable. The fore and aft torpedoes never could come to bear, even after the GCS saucer-seperated.

[Captain Seafort]

That you despise the very thing it was designed for?

"The very thing it was designed for"? Perhaps the fact that it was a pupose built warship, a test-bed for the most advanced tactical systems available, and the fastest ship in the fleet slipped your mind? The fact that they slapped on the MVAM stupidity doesn't negate the rest of that.

[Thorin]

Well, I don't know, Thorin. Maybe making dozens of statements claiming it to be a waste of resources, and poorly designed could lead people to believe that you think the design is useless?

Where did I claim that? I have described its merits and its cons. Please, if you're going to put words into my mouth make sure it's got some basis. Just because I was debating a specific point that Teaos thought was a merit but was actually a con doesn't mean I put forward my opinion on it.

[Tsukiyumi]

...I have described its merits and its cons...

Which are your opinions... Its merits and cons, in your opinion. I agree completely that your opinions have more merit, and basis in sound tactics than some of the other arguments, but it's still your opinion.

EDIT: Unless you're just playing devil's advocate, in which case, I understand.

[Thorin]

No, I have, if you actually bother to read my posts, described the technical pros and cons, specifically with regards to a proportionally greater surface area on 3 separate ships, but they can deal with 3 separate incidents. I have at no point - as you have labelled me as saying - said the Prometheus is a waste, or even MVAM is a waste (indeed, I said if it could be a nice idea, just not in a generic ship v ship/fleet v fleet environment).

[Blackstar the Chakat]

That you despise the very thing it was designed for?

"The very thing it was designed for"? Perhaps the fact that it was a pupose built warship, a test-bed for the most advanced tactical systems available, and the fastest ship in the fleet slipped your mind? The fact that they slapped on the MVAM stupidity doesn't negate the rest of that.

What proof do we have that it was the testbed for those advanced systems? And increasing speed is hardly a major deal. Just an improvement of engine technology with no indications of it's engines being experimental.

[Tsukiyumi]

No, I have, if you actually bother to read my posts, described the technical pros and cons, specifically with regards to a proportionally greater surface area on 3 separate ships, but they can deal with 3 separate incidents. I have at no point - as you have labelled me as saying - said the Prometheus is a waste, or even MVAM is a waste (indeed, I said if it could be a nice idea, just not in a generic ship v ship/fleet v fleet environment).

I believe it was Rochey and Seafort who stressed the Prometheus being a waste of resources, but you've consistently reinforced and agreed with their points. The three of you have been in MVAM mode during this debate; I guess I just associated your argument with theirs by default. My apologies.

[Thorin]

I haven't agreed with them - the only thing I have been saying is with regards to the technical aspect; that 1/3 of the ship would have [less than] 1/3 of the shield strength - and probably around 1/3 of the weapons depending on 'hidden' weapons. I have said that 3 sections are good to deal with 3 separate incidents, which is also hardly an opinion on the usability of MVAM system.

[Tsukiyumi]

I have said that 3 sections are good to deal with 3 separate incidents, which is also hardly an opinion on the usability of MVAM system.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude or something, but that is still your opinion, Thorin.

Fact is only sometimes an absolute.

[Mikey]

The issue with shield strength is dependent on whether or not we have any evidence, or even indication, that the total power available to each of the separated section is in fact exactly 1/3 that of the combined ship. Has there been any indication on the show one way or the other?

[Blackstar the Chakat]

The issue with shield strength is dependent on whether or not we have any evidence, or even indication, that the total power available to each of the separated section is in fact exactly 1/3 that of the combined ship. Has there been any indication on the show one way or the other?

Negative