Frank Herberts Dune vs the USA and UK

[Mikey]

I felt it too, and I know my wife fights it every day of her life.

[Tsukiyumi]

I feel much more fulfilled doing what I know I'm supposed to, rather than what someone else tells me to. I'm reaching my potential on my own, because I wish to, not because someone is forcing me down a particular path. Filing useless paperwork just wasn't my calling, I guess.

[Monroe]

The Prussians wre good, not because of any inherent national superiority, but because of the rigid discipline and excellent training of Frederick-William's army.

Oh I agree. That's why I think person for person the Prussian soldiers were better than the criminal pressed red coat ones.
I think the British were their superior far as a nation goes but Prussians had great soldiers.

[Captain Seafort]

Oh I agree. That's why I think person for person the Prussian soldiers were better than the criminal pressed red coat ones.
I think the British were their superior far as a nation goes but Prussians had great soldiers.

The British Army was entirely composed of volunteers, not pressed men, and while the Prussians were by far the best on the continent the gap between them and the redcoats was a lot narrower. By the end of the Seven Years War the British Army was probably better man for man, since the quality of the Prussians had deteriorated under the stress of trying to keep units up to strength.

By the time of the Penninsular campaign, the redcoats were by by far the best troops in the world, capable of firing three rounds a minute in any weather when other armies had trouble achieving 2-3 rounds/minute in dry weather.

[Deepcrush]

England never pressed criminals to be soldiers. In fact, those same criminals were given a second chance at life by volunteering to serve life in the Army or Navy. For 60 years, England fought non stop wars across the world. By the end of it, they were left the only super power on the planet. If you did anything, you had to ask England first. Pax Britannica.

[Captain Seafort]

England never pressed criminals to be soldiers. In fact, those same criminals were given a second chance at life by volunteering to serve life in the Army or Navy.

The RN would press anyone they spotted who looked like they would make a half-decent seaman, including crooks. Indeed, while it was a measure of last resort, trawling round the local prisons before sailing was by no means unusual.

The Army, while it was full of crooks (the "scum of the earth" as Wellington once said) was indeed limited to volunteers. Nominally at any rate - a choice between the shilling and the gallows stretches the definition of "volunteering" somewhat.

[Deepcrush]

The Army, while it was full of crooks (the "scum of the earth" as Wellington once said) was indeed limited to volunteers. Nominally at any rate - a choice between the shilling and the gallows stretches the definition of "volunteering" somewhat.

I happen to think that this is the best of all choices for ones life.

"You are going to hang for your crimes but, this man here has another offer for you to repay you people."

Sounds like the best kind of volunteering in the world to me.

[Granitehewer]

boring sidenote/immense tangeant, and apologies to all my mates here for this less than tantalising mini-tale......
My uncle used to lecture in oriental studies, mostly sino-japanese and korean stuff, and he told me of how certain daimyo used to employ units of convicts in what we might think of as a penal battalion, although the sole purpose of this was as a psychological weapon to demoralise the enemy, as the convicts would march within a set distance of the enemy lines and suddenly commit a massed suicide.........now it might be an ethical faux pas, but there are certain types of modern offenders who i'd consider for recruitement..........

[Monroe]

The Army, while it was full of crooks (the "scum of the earth" as Wellington once said) was indeed limited to volunteers. Nominally at any rate - a choice between the shilling and the gallows stretches the definition of "volunteering" somewhat.

I happen to think that this is the best of all choices for ones life.

"You are going to hang for your crimes but, this man here has another offer for you to repay you people."

Sounds like the best kind of volunteering in the world to me.

I guess you could call that volunteering. I wouldn't though.

[Sionnach Glic]

Hey, at least it makes some use of them.

[Deepcrush]

That and they don't have to die anymore or rot in prison. They have a second chance at life. How is that not a fair deal?

[Monroe]

I bet pressed sailors were offered a similiar choice. Serve or go overboard but they're called pressed sailors whereas the army were called volunteers?

[Deepcrush]

Pressed sailors were kidnapped off of their own ships and forced under whip and chain to serve aboard. Calling them similar in any way is just silly. If you wanted your 'similar choice' then you would have to kidnap all of them and then ask...

"Well do you want to go home? Or, if you'd like, become a slave for another country?"

Some how I just don't see that working very well.

Giving a criminal a second chance while supporting your own armed forces is one. To even try to compare it to kidnapping, murder, slavery grand theft is again just foolish.

[Captain Seafort]

Most of the Army's recruits weren't criminals, but simply down-and-outs looking for free food and booze - the criminal element (or at least the convicted criminal element) was actually the minority.

[Captain Seafort]

Pressed sailors were kidnapped off of their own ships and forced under whip and chain to serve aboard. Calling them similar in any way is just silly. If you wanted your 'similar choice' then you would have to kidnap all of them and then ask...

My knowledge of US Navy recruitment techniques is non-existent, so my apologies if you were actually discussing them.

The Royal Navy on the other hand, operated the press-gang in port, not at sea (except when retrieving deserters). The modus operandi was to go round the local pubs, round up any seamen without an exemption, and take them back to the ship. Once under way the entire crew was under identical disclipline, and rapidly became a cohesive force with no distinction between the volunteers and the pressed men.