Question about the Lakota

[Mikey]

I think you're right - the Lakota modification is a retrofit that could take place without hindering construction of new ships. The problem I see is this: we agree that Starfleet is NOT building any new Excelsiors - wouldn't the spaceframes that you would be modifying be close to the end of their operational lives?

[Deepcrush]

Well that verys, they have a life span of just under 100 years and if each ship takes a full two years to make the upgrade they could replace much of the endo-hull without to much trouble if the just go piece by piece. Enterprise 1701 for TMP was refited in just 18 months and that was a total overhaul! It took two years for the prototype when they were working out the kinks. I think that the next gen would flow much faster. And if the frames need repairs then just stick to the two year plan and you'll have 250 ships ready for another 6o years (give or take). Do remember that this is just a guess but i still feel strongly that it could and would work if managed properly.

[Thorin]

I don't think hull refits would be too bad. Even in Nemesis we see that a good 50 metres of the front of the Enterprise is fully refitted in what couldn't have been very long. And that's probably the most complicated hull structure out there.

[Mikey]

I agree that it could be feasible to make relatively quick retrofits. The fact remains, however, that we're talking about spaceframes that could be close to 100 years old at the time of the Dominion War. Does it make sense to spend any resources at all on ships that will serve for another 5 - 10 years?

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Well, the space frame might be more durable then anticipated for some reason. A refit would help keep the ships on par with modern ships. If I was in charge I'd refit them for scientific uses rather then refit them for combat, but with the increased threat of the Klingons and the Jem'hadar Starfleet may have been looking at possible options for creating a combat fleet quickly.

[Teaos]

Look at how fast Voyager refit its self in Endgame. I think you are able to a lot on ship and with help of a starbase.

[Deepcrush]

No, no, your still missing it. The lakota refit was to late in coming to be a build design, only a few of them could have been ready by the start of the war. The Lakota refit should have been constant. Most of the fleet was refited for war in weapons, shields, armor so on. When the excelsiors we being were under refit or not on combat standby then they should have been doing just this. They had two years everybody, two whole years. In ww2 the US had only one year to build and went from being ranked 38 in the worlds militarys to #1! Starfleet spent time trying to pick which of their options the would use when they should have just thrown in with everything on the table! Every ship in the fleet that could be upgraded should have been upgraded. Coat be damned, i you want to win then you go all in because if your not willing to go all in for war then you shouldn't be there in the first place!

Here are ship classes that I know of that are capable of the lakota refit. There maybe more so if you know any others please say so.

Excelsior - Saw this one.
Galaxy - This class had a refit but it was poorly done.
Intrepid - Wouldn't be as good as lakota but still much better then normal.
Nebula - Ok, this one had a good refit, not great but still pretty good.
New Orleans - Should have been a gimmie! Its a torpedo boat!
Steamrunner - Not so sure, kinda small but maybe some upgrades.
Ambassador - Again not sure but still would be nice.

If you know of anymore please let me know

[Mikey]

I uinderstand your point; however, there are two problems. Some of those ships are simply too antiquated to bother with - again, there is a question of the longevity of the basic spaceframe.

More importantly, the Federation entered into a war with little time to prepare. If we say that those ships could have gone a Lakota-type refit in 18 months, then every one of those ships will be OPUT OF SERVICE for a year and a half! With the way the Dominion was advancing, the Federation could afford that a lot less than it could afford putting lesser-equipped ships on the lines.

[Deepcrush]

First i laugh at myself for my stutter, lol. Second i'm not talking about once the war was one, of course it would have been impossible then. But they had a long time before then to make ready. The lakota refit was a needed pre-war prep job and they failed to see this. It could be redtape (plotline) that got in the way but it still holds true. When you need everyship you can get your hands on to get ready for a war two years down the road then you need to be spending your time building and upgrading everything, who cares if ten years down the line those ships are due for retirement, right now what matters is numbers and beef-up.

[Mikey]

The lakota refit was a needed pre-war prep job and they failed to see this...When you need everyship you can get your hands on to get ready for a war two years down the road...

You're right, of course, but we all know that Starfleet refuses to consider the possibility of violent conflict until it is forced upon them. We've seen it in this scenario; we've seen it in their ship design ethic; we've seen it in their personnel unpreparedness; we've seen it in the way they deal in diplomatic channels.

[Deepcrush]

Starfleet hasn't been the same since khitomer. And it kills me to see it like that. Will somebody please call me when the UFP grows a pair!