Peter Jackson hired to make The Hobbit, in two films

[Mikey]

Well, there were still those of (more or less) pure Numenorean blood who didn't want to interbreed with "normal" men...

The Elves helped create the ring, and the Elves had to destroy themselves to destroy the ring, and they knew it. They had no hope for themselves, but Men still did, and so the world passed into their keeping.

I see your point. As far as creating the ring, I would have been interested to see/read something about how all the elves of Middle-Earth were forced to suffer eventually by the creation then destruction of the Ring, but the only elves who had a part in it were the Noldor - of whom the only one to feature much in the story was Galadriel...

Am I excavating too deeply?

[Jordanis]

Well, there were still those of (more or less) pure Numenorean blood who didn't want to interbreed with "normal" men...

The Elves helped create the ring, and the Elves had to destroy themselves to destroy the ring, and they knew it. They had no hope for themselves, but Men still did, and so the world passed into their keeping.

I see your point. As far as creating the ring, I would have been interested to see/read something about how all the elves of Middle-Earth were forced to suffer eventually by the creation then destruction of the Ring, but the only elves who had a part in it were the Noldor - of whom the only one to feature much in the story was Galadriel...

Am I excavating too deeply?

Talking about the internal politics of the Elves is where my knowledge starts to break down. However, I would point out that the two Elven ringbearers are two of the most important Elven leaders period. The one that seems to be left out is Thranduil of Mirkwood, but it should be meanwhile remembered that the Elves of Lorien were also Silvan elves.

So honestly? I don't know if what you're getting at is relevant or not. But certainly Imladris and Lorien were the last two holdouts of Noldor culture of a sort, and certainly both settlements were highly regarded, and both would fall into ruin when the power of the rings faded.

Something I just recalled, is that Lorien is called 'the heart of Elvendom on Middle-earth'. So yes, the place is important to all elves, not just the Noldor, which means that all elves would be concerned with its passing.

[Deepcrush]

The race of Elves were afraid of the future.
The race of Men were divided between good and evil.
The dwarves were dying off from a drop in population.

I know its not that simple but you all get the point i'm sure.
This was a really well writen story of overcoming the odds.

I miss Gil Galad again I was never really sure about him other then he was High King. He also kicked ass in war! He should have been in the movie! Same with *Again* the dwarves who were left out.

[Jim]

The race of Elves were afraid of the future.
The race of Men were divided between good and evil.
The dwarves were dying off from a drop in population.

I know its not that simple but you all get the point i'm sure.
This was a really well writen story of overcoming the odds.

I miss Gil Galad again I was never really sure about him other then he was High King. He also kicked ass in war! He should have been in the movie! Same with *Again* the dwarves who were left out.

I wondered why there were no dwarves in the war. Granted, the one mine-full was killed off by gobblins and the Ballrog, but what about the rest? Apparently Gimly's people didn't even know his cousin's mine was killed off. Were where all the rest of the dwarves when all the fighting was going on?

[Deepcrush]

Fighting their own war in the north.

Two of the three main Easterling armies and about a quarter of Sauron's orcs took part in the invasions of the dwarf holds and the northmen realms (Dale being the most well known). In truth the dwarves did very well in holding their own in the war. The Easterling armies are nothing to be laughed at and yet still failed twice to break the dwarves. Also I think the left over forces of Angmar attacked but they were little more then a bug bite and got crushed. After that the Witch-King showed up in Minas Morgul.

[Jim]

Fighting their own war in the north.

Two of the three main Easterling armies and about a quarter of Sauron's orcs took part in the invasions of the dwarf holds and the northmen realms (Dale being the most well known). In truth the dwarves did very well in holding their own in the war. The Easterling armies are nothing to be laughed at and yet still failed twice to break the dwarves. Also I think the left over forces of Angmar attacked but they were little more then a bug bite and got crushed. After that the Witch-King showed up in Minas Morgul.

So in 27 hours of move by Jackson, they couldn't show any of that?

[Deepcrush]

Nope, and thats why I'm angry.

[Sionnach Glic]

They don't even need to mentione it, just a single line would have sufficed.

[Deepcrush]

Agreed. I would have been happy to hear about it in the movies. And why the hell did they take Eomer out of the "Battle of the Hornburg"?

[Thorin]

Agreed. I would have been happy to hear about it in the movies. And why the hell did they take Eomer out of the "Battle of the Hornburg"?

The only thing I can think of is some sort of greater 'redemption' of Rohan/Theoden - it was (in the film) Saruman who expelled Eomer and so (in the film) it does at least make some sense that Eomer coming back shows Saruman's hold over Rohan is gone and that he is defeated. And they probably didn't want to introduce another character (Erkenbrand), and preferred to use 2000 charging cavalry instead of the book's 1000 infantry.

[Deepcrush]

True enough. Though it would also have been nice to see the battle as it was meant. Eomer commanded a "small army" and took them with him to the Hornburg. Even counting it as a "small army" to star with and that it was broken in battle. His numbers on top of that of Théoden King could have reached as many as 5,000. Not that JRR would ever give us to precise a number. That used to confuse me so heavily when I was a kid trying to read these books. HAHAHA! But still those numbers would have made for a great battle! That plus the orcs and Dunlendings who should have been there.

{Edit}
Also the charge of the calvery could have been replaced by having more then just a half dozen riders going out in the end of the battle in the film. Instead a charge of hundreds of horsemen. Plus a thousand Heavy Infantry is still a rough thing to face when you are getting flanked and are trapped between a fort, a living forest and two armies. I think Theoden was the only character who was played as the book called for. That and I loved the character of Theoden in the movies, Bernard Hill proved a powerful actor once again. He should be in more films.

[Thorin]

True enough. Though it would also have been nice to see the battle as it was meant. Eomer commanded a "small army" and took them with him to the Hornburg. Even counting it as a "small army" to star with and that it was broken in battle. His numbers on top of that of Théoden King could have reached as many as 5,000.

Being a sucker for numbers, I'd have placed it far, far less than that. Inside Helms Deep, all told (including those of Helm's Dyke) I'd have put the number around 1500, and then Gandalf/Erkenbrand coming with the further 1000 later. If 5000 were there, the 10,000 Orcs and Dunlendings wouldn't have stood a chance against the battle hardened Rohirrim who were in the castle - often the defenders of fortifications can take out enemy at a rate of 5:1 loss.

Also the charge of the calvery could have been replaced by having more then just a half dozen riders going out in the end of the battle in the film. Instead a charge of hundreds of horsemen. Plus a thousand Heavy Infantry is still a rough thing to face when you are getting flanked and are trapped between a fort, a living forest and two armies. I think Theoden was the only character who was played as the book called for. That and I loved the character of Theoden in the movies, Bernard Hill proved a powerful actor once again. He should be in more films.

I thought (apart from his initial Saruman ridden self, which is arguably not Theoden's character, but in the book Saruman did not 'inhabit' Theoden, it was almost totally Wormtongue's doing) Theoden was one of the best portrayed characters, both for Hill's acting, his very personality which was one of the more complicated ones, and the relative loyalty to the book's portrayal of him.

[Mikey]

and the relative loyalty to the book's portrayal of him.

One of the refreshing but few times this occurred.

[Deepcrush]

5 to 1 would still work though. So it is still possible for there to have been as many as 5000 Rohirrim. The Uruk-hai (orc-men depending on the version of the book you read) were counted legion. 5 to 10 thousand on their own. Though I think 10,000 would be to much for their own count. The orcs were at least two fold and the Dunlending added their numbers to the mix as well. Ok to think of it that way, it runs closer to 4 to 1. Which still isn't bad. 3000 defenders vs as many as 20,000 attackers. plus 1000 men with Erkenbrand. Also not all of the Rohirrim at the battle were in the best of ways. Many that watched the fortress were old. The bulk of men that came later were dishearted by the loss of battle. The only truly ready for battle troops there were Theoden King's Great Company. Which was made up of riders near the number of Theodred's count. Which was about 1,000 mixed calvary. I am also bothered that Jackson showed the Men of Rohan as unable to defend their own fortress when that was by far not the case. Regardless of the troop count they were badly outnumbered and yet still held off a massive enemy force. The only siege that was held better was the dwarf holds. But we should, could and would expect such from the dwarves. Jackson missed a chance for a huge battle sceen that could have been many times that of what it was made.

[Mikey]

Even without anaylizing the numbers too deeply, this is another example of changing Tolkien for the film when such a change was completely unnecessary. The Battle of Helm's Deep, as it was written, was just fine. There was no need for any license to be taken when turning it into a screenplay.

Jackson's policy of changing things for the worse, merely to be able to say he changed the great Tolkien's words, is why I will never watch any of his LOTR films more than the one time I already have.