Inferno's Light question

[kostmayer]

Hell, an egg timer would work just fine so that you wouldn't have to leave a ship behind.

A timer? Come on Deep, be realistic, this is Starfleet we're talking about.

No, this is Sisko and O'Brian we're talking about.

Indeed. O'Brien is MacGuyver with better hair, and Sisko is the baddest ass Chef since Casey Ryback. If they can't conjour up brains, balls, and an egg timer, no one can.

[Captain Seafort]

No, this is Sisko and O'Brian we're talking about.

Good point.

what if it had been the Borg instead of the Kazon who were about to seize the Caretaker array. Would Janeway's decision been a better one?

1) What the hell has this got to do with the current discussion.

2) No, she's still an idiot for not using a timer - no-one's ever suggested leaving the Kazon in control of (what was left of) the array.

[SolkaTruesilver]

1) What the hell has this got to do with the current discussion.

2) No, she's still an idiot for not using a timer - no-one's ever suggested leaving the Kazon in control of (what was left of) the array.

1) Absolutely nothing. Just a thought that crossed my mind
2) Have we ever saw a timer-controlled large scale bomb working well in the TrekVerse?

[Captain Seafort]

2) Have we ever saw a timer-controlled large scale bomb working well in the TrekVerse?

Every self-destruct we've ever seen, plus the PT that destroyed the Borg probe in "Dark Frontier".

[Sionnach Glic]

However, I don't think Starfleet has the balls to make that kind of decision.

Pre-War Starfleet, I'd certainly agree with you. But by the end of the war Starfleet had given itself a serious shake-up, with more ruthless men in charge. I can see them writing off the lives of one ship's crew as an unfortunate but acceptable cost.

But if you look at it this way, what if it had been the Borg instead of the Kazon who were about to seize the Caretaker array. Would Janeway's decision been a better one?

Yes. Janeway shouldn't have gotten involved in the entire Kazon situation in the first place - it had nothing to do with the UFP and she pretty much dragged the Federation into someone else's war. With the Borg, however, you have an enemy of the Federation on the verge of seizing a potentialy game-changing piece of technology. In such a situation she's be quite justified in firing everything she had at the array to destroy it. Indeed, I'd have even cut her a bit of slack on the whole timer method - one could rationalise it as her being determined to ensure nothing was left of the array, even if it meant practicaly dooming her crew to being stranded on the other side of the galaxy.

If the Kazon had seized the Caretaker array, would the Borg have finally deemed them worthy of assimilation, let alone to capture that technology?

I doubt the Kazon would have gained much from capturing the array. This is, after all, the species that can't figure out how to get water when they've a fleet of FTL-capable spacecraft. The Borg would seize the array and perhaps assimilate any Kazon who were onboard (just to ensure they didn't figure anything particularly unusual out) then go right back to ignoring them again.

[SolkaTruesilver]

2) Have we ever saw a timer-controlled large scale bomb working well in the TrekVerse?

Every self-destruct we've ever seen, plus the PT that destroyed the Borg probe in "Dark Frontier".

Ah! (Self-destruct aren't reliable anyway). But the PT in Dark Frontier is a great element..

But if I remember right, there were some glitch in the plan's execution, no? Didn't the Borg came close to deactivate it? Or didn't it exploded prematurely? Or with too much power?

Pre-War Starfleet, I'd certainly agree with you. But by the end of the war Starfleet had given itself a serious shake-up, with more ruthless men in charge. I can see them writing off the lives of one ship's crew as an unfortunate but acceptable cost.

I agree with your assessment. But closing the wormhole post-war isn't particulary useful... So Starfleet would not do it before the war then.

[Sionnach Glic]

I'm inclined to agree. With the end of the war, the wormhole on the UFP's end is undoubtedly heavily defended. So much so that even a large fleet would have serious trouble trying to break through (huzzah for bottlenecks). There'd be no way for the Dominion to force a breakthrough without crippling their entire fleet at the same time, meaning that a war simply isn't going to happen.

Ah! (Self-destruct aren't reliable anyway). But the PT in Dark Frontier is a great element..

But if I remember right, there were some glitch in the plan's execution, no? Didn't the Borg came close to deactivate it? Or didn't it exploded prematurely? Or with too much power?

Aye, there's always a chance (though undoubtedly a remote one) that the timer will, for whatever reason, fail. As such, were it the Borg who were on the verge of taking the array I would not only have forgiven Janeway's actions, I'd be defending them. You can't gamble with such a big risk - even if the odds are all in your favour. She'd have had to stay to be utterly certain that the array was destroyed. The lives of her crew would be a small price to pay considering the consequences of the Borg seizing the array.

[Captain Seafort]

Ah! (Self-destruct aren't reliable anyway)

On the contrary - they're one of the few systems on Fed ship that consistently work as advertised.

But if I remember right, there were some glitch in the plan's execution, no? Didn't the Borg came close to deactivate it? Or didn't it exploded prematurely? Or with too much power?

The "beam a torpedo aboard on a timer" part worked fine. The problem was that Borg ships were designed to self-destruct if they suffered critical damage or a malfunction (something that Seven, or a basic knowledge of the first Borg invasion, could have told Janeway).

[SolkaTruesilver]

Ah! (Self-destruct aren't reliable anyway)

On the contrary - they're one of the few systems on Fed ship that consistently work as advertised.

Point. But I wonder how useful it'd be when you use it to set a timer on a bomb in the Trekverse. Oh well..

I'd just be wondering if it would be worth the risk to simply put a timer if you want to disable the GQ wormhole rather than sacrifice a ship.

Talking about sacrificing a ship, what would be time needed for Voyager to go by foot between the GQ wormhole and the Federation? have we ever seen official maps on the topic?

What kind of ship would you outfit to achieve such massive "independant long-range" mission...?

[Captain Seafort]

I'd just be wondering if it would be worth the risk to simply put a timer if you want to disable the GQ wormhole rather than sacrifice a ship.

Sacrificing the ship wouldn't be a problem - just aim it into the wormhole on autopilot, with the self destruct set to go off in the time it would take to reach the GQ entrance

Talking about sacrificing a ship, what would be time needed for Voyager to go by foot between the GQ wormhole and the Federation?

About 15 trillion years. The GQ end of the wormhole was about as far from the Federation as the Caretaker's array, and 5 km/hr isn't going to get you there very quickly.

[SolkaTruesilver]

About 15 trillion years. The GQ end of the wormhole was about as far from the Federation as the Caretaker's array, and 5 km/hr isn't going to get you there very quickly.

I meant on Voyager's foot. Meaning, no bypasses, no catapults, no uber-psychic powers, no small worm holes, no Enhanced Warp Drive That Makes You Crash Into a Planet.

[Deepcrush]

70 years +/-

[Sionnach Glic]

The figure to get back from the Caretaker's Array was 75 years at full speed, presumably at the most direct route. From the other side of the wormhole it would probably take around the same amount of time.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Ah! (Self-destruct aren't reliable anyway)

On the contrary - they're one of the few systems on Fed ship that consistently work as advertised.

Point. But I wonder how useful it'd be when you use it to set a timer on a bomb in the Trekverse. Oh well..

Kirk and Spock used a timer to destroy a giant single-celled organism in 'The Immunity Syndrome' and it worked pretty damned well.

[SolkaTruesilver]

On the contrary - they're one of the few systems on Fed ship that consistently work as advertised.

Point. But I wonder how useful it'd be when you use it to set a timer on a bomb in the Trekverse. Oh well..

Kirk and Spock used a timer to destroy a giant single-celled organism in 'The Immunity Syndrome' and it worked pretty damned well.

Yiouch. My weak TOS-fu is showing.

Time to leave the scene!