oh man

Post by **Mikey** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:14 pm

While it may go against everything the show stood for they got the job done when no one else could.

Great. If I were in a war in the 24th century, I'd want them on my side. But we ARE discussing the show Star Trek and many years of that show have shown the Federation espousing certain principles. It just doesn't make sense to decry those principles on the basis of necessity.

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:48 am

Well you could argue that section 31 is not part of Starfleet and thus isnt breaking their morals. They dont answer to starfleet so cant be classed as part of it.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:54 am

No, but they are part of the Federation. And what is Starfleet but one branch of the Federation?

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:10 pm

No i mean I dont think you can even class them as Federation. Since they dont answer to anyone they are not part of it. The Federation just chooses not to stop them.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:16 pm

They don't answer to anyone?

I'd love to know who founded that organisation.

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:19 pm

Probably ex Starfleet personal who thought something underhanded wa needed to keep them alive from the other agencies.

It is written in Section 31 (thus the name) of a charter that a group which uses unconvental methods to presurve the federation.

Post by **Mikey** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:21 pm

No i mean I dont think you can even class them as Federation. Since they dont answer to anyone they are not part of it. The Federation just chooses not to stop them.

Of course they are part of the Federation. In the interest of not raising a spoiled child, I don't necessarily accede to all my daughter's demands, but we're still part of the same family.

Why would Section 31 do all the things it did if it weren't part of the Federation? Why would its members have Starfleet rank if it weren't part of the Federation?

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:33 pm

If I start a group of people that helps out my country in someway and the government doesnt close me down does that make it offical even though I have nothing to do with the government?

Post by **Mikey** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:49 pm

If you had a governmental a/o military standing, then yes it does.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:01 pm

Put it this way. If the CIA was given free reign to do whatever they like wiht no one to answer to dose this mean they are no longer an American organisation?

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:03 pm

If they had no funding and no superiors and no active support than yes they wouldnt.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:12 pm

Er, I think its clear that S31 gets funding. How would they operate without it?

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:21 pm

Shady business deals, blackmail, extortion. I think of them as the mafia. Also you dont really need "Money" so much in the Federation as you do resourses. So long as they have some form of industry behind them they could achive most thinks.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:25 pm

So long as they have some form of industry behind them they could achive most thinks.

The only problem with this is that all industry is owned by the state. How could they blackmail people into giving them resources without people up above wondering where all this missing equipment is going?

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:29 pm

Have a few industrial replicators on some random moon and a trade agrement with more miners for raw materials. Many ways to get what you need.