USS Equinox problem

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:24 pm

insane taste in art

This alone was basically a war declaration in my book.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:28 pm

I just realized: even if 8472's intention was to wipe out only the Borg, that would technically still class them as xenocidal, regardless of who started the war. Period.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:32 pm

Tsukiyumi wrote:I just realized: even if 8472's intention was to wipe out only the Borg, that would technically still class them as xenocidal, regardless of who started the war. Period.

Totally correct.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:32 pm

Tsukiyumi wrote:I just realized: even if 8472's intention was to wipe out only the Borg, that would technically still class them as xenocidal, regardless of who started the war. Period.

Not at all - even if the Borg could be described as a species, 8472 would be easily justified in wiping out the collective's millitary. The fact that this military comprises the entire collecive is quite besides the point.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:35 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
Tsukiyumi wrote:I just realized: even if 8472's intention was to wipe out only the Borg, that would technically still class them as xenocidal, regardless of who started the war. Period.
Not at all - even if the Borg could be described as a species, 8472 would be easily justified in wiping out the collective's millitary. The fact that this military comprises the entire collecive is quite besides the point.

Wiping out an entire race is xenocidal. Whether the military comprises all or part of the race is quite beside the point.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:36 pm

Do we have any evidence that 8472 was aware of the collective status of the Borg?

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:38 pm

Would they even care?

BTW how did they look like humans in the other ep?
I know they were injecting themselves with some thing, but how would any injection take something totally non human and make it look human?

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:41 pm

I always thought that seemed like contrived plot crap to save on SFX, personally. I didn't really care for that ep, except that we got another look at Starfleet Headquarters.

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:43 pm

agreed, sounds good to me.
That never made any sense. Oh well.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:45 pm

A drastic waste of one of, what, four eps with an awesome species? Maybe that should go in my other thread.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:51 pm

Duskofdead wrote:Wiping out an entire race is xenocidal. Whether the military comprises all or part of the race is quite beside the point.

Intent is critical - we know that the Borg invaded 8472's space, we can surmise from Borg SOPs that they attempted to assimilate 8472. From that point onwards a state of war existed between the two entities - any Borg forces were fair game, up to and including wiping out their entire military. Unfortunately for the Borg, and fortunately for the rest of the galaxy, this would involve wiping out the entire collective.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:54 pm

However, we still have no evidence that 8472 was aware of the Borg's collective status. I'm saying that certainly leans them in the direction of being xenocidal.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:59 pm

Tsukiyumi wrote:However, we still have no evidence that 8472 was aware of the Borg's collective status. I'm saying that certainly leans them in the direction of being xenocidal.

Why? If they were unaware of the nature of the Borg they'd likely consider their subspace network to be a military communications grid, which indeed it is. Therefore, by attacking any target connected to that grid the effect of their actions would be to destroy the entire collective while targeting only the Borg military.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:01 am

So... Inadvertent xenocide, then?

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:03 am

Captain Seafort wrote:
Tsukiyumi wrote:However, we still have no evidence that 8472 was aware of the Borg's collective status. I'm saying that certainly leans them in the direction of being xenocidal.
Why? If they were unaware of the nature of the Borg they'd likely consider their subspace network to be a military communications grid, which indeed it is. Therefore, by attacking any target connected to that grid the effect of their actions would be to destroy the entire collective while targeting only the Borg military.

Those are all suppositions. All we saw them do was pour through holes into our galaxy and start destroying things. Based upon their communication with Voyager (or marked lack thereof besides threats basically) it is counterintuitive to assume they were making such distinctions during their war, or even bothering to "study" or "understand" the Borg or anything about them. It seems much more likely they did exactly what they did with Voyager, discover another race, decide it was a threat to their genetic integrity, and seek to destroy it. Very simple. They bothered to "study" Voyager/Starfleet only after simple brute force failed.