You Crush the Rebellion

[Teaos]

I don't know which one would work better. But I think both would work.

But Monroe' plan is the one that is more in the emporers style. Fear and terror rather than bribing the problem away.

[stitch626]

Out of both of them, the Emperor would definitely go for Monroe's. I don't think he'd like the appeasement one.

[Monroe]

Out of both of them, the Emperor would definitely go for Monroe's. I don't think he'd like the appeasement one.

Reason I suggested it, not cause of some 'hard on for Stalin'.

[Deepcrush]

Good job Monroe, call for others to come in and get shot down then try to play it off as if its helpful... lovely.

Well, now that he's been raped more then an asian pornstar. I think this thread has really just run its course.

I'm out and thank you all for your time.

[Monroe]

Good job Monroe, call for others to come in and get shot down then try to play it off as if its helpful... lovely.

Well, now that he's been raped more then an asian pornstar. I think this thread has really just run its course.

I'm out and thank you all for your time.

huh? I didn't call anyone. And they agreed that its possible... my whole side of the argument isn't that that your plan won't work its that mine will. I think your plan would work, I just think mine would better. So when you say that everyone disagrees with me and they all jump in, besides Rochey, and say that they don't disagree that it could work, you call that a victory? You trying to do a repeat of Vietnam? Call victory then run? I'm trying to wrap around just how stupid you sound right now.

Since EVERYONE has told you its nonsense... the more likely option is that you haven't been able to comprehend the subject at hand. Trying to displace that onto someone else, not really helping your cause.

All the proof that you've posted, Monroe, shows that it works on individual countries, with populations in the hundreds of millions at most. Even then, there was dissent and the occasional (though brutaly surpressed) attempt at an uprising.

Really the only one who agrees with you (Your position is that my plan won't work not that your plan will, if I need to remind you of your position since you seem to be forgetting) said himself that it works on individual countries. Now its a leap to the galactic scale so I'm looking forward to his response to my counter, but you said so yourself, Deep, that there's no way it would work on any countries. If you take that pillar of your argument-- that a rule of fear would never work, Rochey himself struck down your own absolute opinion that it would never work.

Rebellions are okay and they can be used as great scape goats in an ultimate fear system. These examples I've posted have never had to deal with credible rebellions.

As far as "EVERYONE" telling me its nonsense, or anyone with a brain disagrees with me:

I said your plan could work, but that the fake appeasement and secret control plan would work better. Because it's working just fine in reality right now.

Intelligent person? Check
Saying its nonsense? ERROR

I don't know which one would work better. But I think both would work.

But Monroe' plan is the one that is more in the emporers style. Fear and terror rather than bribing the problem away.

Intelligent person? Check
Saying its nonsense? ERROR

Stitch-

Intelligent Person? Check
Saying its nonsense? ERROR

Mikey-

Intelligent Person? Check
Saying its nonsense? ERROR

Deep-
Usually intelligent person? Check
Saying its nonsense? Check

Rochey-
Intelligent Person? Check
Saying its nonsense? At least partially

Not the best batting record to claim everyone is against it.

So since I need to remind you once again apparently what your position is:

Ok, now things are just getting stupid. You guys are talking about being a terror on your people but you haven't done anything to deal with the rebellion. All you've done is give people MORE reason to support the rebellion. A million systems in the Empire. You don't have enough ships and troops to control all of them.

Yes, try that, your whole "Ultimate Fear" crap. Run it into the people and destroy everything so that they have nothing to lose. Smash your whole economy into the ground and then watch your nation fall apart under you. Or after you. Either way, you have only suppressed the rebel's. Once you're gone or once they watch your plans eat away at your own ability to stop them they'll come right back. In the end, you failed. Why? Because you thought for some stupid reason that people will listen to you because you say so.

So since I have yet again reminded you of your position that is anti-everything about my plan... except replacing the TIE fighters... How does almost everyone agreeing that my plan could work in addition to the normal plan equal:

Good job Monroe, call for others to come in and get shot down then try to play it off as if its helpful... lovely.

See why you sounded incredibly stupid then? You can't realistically except no one to catch on one extreme position arguing a moderate position then the extreme position jumping to moderate and arguing that the moderate position is actually the opposite extreme counts as a victory?

You say your historians on 1960s matter for discussing implementing Soviet Russia's policies on a larger scale and that my historians on Soviet Russia don't matter?

However, since my guys matter for the topic and yours have just been jokes...

But then refuse why your civil rights historians who wrote magical works that you refuse to even name matter. But all my on-topic historians and primary sources, my two studies are jokes? Honestly how many times have I asked for a book title? The best you've done is said you already posted it. Maybe its in one of those other threads you tried to spread the debate to?

Honestly Deep you keep digging yourself a deeper hole every timer you open your mouth. Pun not intended.


"Everyone with half a brain thinks your plan is stupid." -Well apparently its just you and maybe Rochey.

at all that supports your "Total Fear Plan". When you do even that much, doesn't even have to be a big thing, just any little detail. I, with everyone here as witness will leave you alone. If I missed a point inside of that mess you call a 'debate' then show it to me. And, as I said, I'll stop. Take something from one of those historians that wrote much of the history I've studied. Show me that even one of them agree you and I'll stop. Bring in real evidence and not your own make believe history and show me to be wrong, and I'll stop.

So by backing out does that mean you're finally getting it through your skull?
If not look at it this way. Name one other topic where we've disagreed on. You know it might just be possible that I know what I'm talking about based on the pattern.

[Deepcrush]

Ok, just read this but since I've finished up with the debate I'll just poke the post.

A, You lied about what I've said. (bad little boy)
B, You again dodged supporting statements. (bad little boy)
C, You ignored the OP. (bad little boy)
D, You failed the OP. (bad little boy)
E, You dodged counter points. (bad little boy)
F, You've tried to claim a victory by beating up my fist with your face. (funny little boy)

One of those is against forum rules, two are against guidelines and all are just a sign of why you are indeed and life - a piece of shit. Marry Christmas and enjoy the eggnog.

[Monroe]

Ok, just read this but since I've finished up with the debate I'll just poke the post.

A, You lied about what I've said. (bad little boy)
B, You again dodged supporting statements. (bad little boy)
C, You ignored the OP. (bad little boy)
D, You failed the OP. (bad little boy)
E, You dodged counter points. (bad little boy)
F, You've tried to claim a victory by beating up my fist with your face. (funny little boy)

One of those is against forum rules, two are against guidelines and all are just a sign of why you are indeed and life - a piece of s**t. Marry Christmas and enjoy the eggnog.

A- I copy and pasted what you said. Mostly from page 2.

B- What supporting statements?

C- I am the OP and I followed my rules

D- I answered the problem.

E- I've met all of your counter points with providing more information that counter those or ask, rather patiently, if I may say so, for more information.

F- You're the one claiming victory...

Seriously Deep. I wonder about your physical health.. are you feeling okay? Dementia is a serious problem.

[Monroe]

Post the majority of your quotes are taken from if I need to remind you of what you said.

Stalin being the death of the USSR? You're joking right? He practically built the USSR from a worthless country into a super power. Lenin was a joke on the world stage and the triumvirate wasn't any better. Stalin was a lot of things but he was not the death of the USSR. It lasted nearly 40 years after his death. Over half its lifetime was spent in or after Stalin's rule.

Wow, 40 years... half a human life time. Thats really good right? I guess that whole rule through fear thing worked... ERRRRRR! Wrong! Russia is still trying to heal from the crap that he started. You should look up history sometime, its really interesting and you might learn something. If it wasn't for the suffering of his people and aid from the US during the second World War, the USSR would have died out in 1942. As it all ended up in 1992, with the fall of the same kind of government that you are talking about.

After thought, how was Lenin a joke on the world stage? Or atleast anymore of a joke then the rest of the people running Europe at the time?

And you're missing the point yet again. Hitler was never over thrown by internal forces. He was the softest out of the two and did have assassination attempts but none succeeded.

I got your point, and it was worthless. Saying he was the softest of the two greatest murders in human history isn't really helping your case. The fact that he ran a government just like the one you are talking about building in SW. And seeing how he ended up getting his ass handed to him for the trouble plus 9 million of his people killed/wounded/missing. Not helping your point. In fact, it shits on your point.

This is addressing the rebellion. You terrify people too much and they won't rebel. Like I said earlier would you stomach your neighbor putting up a rebel flag when just that little act could get your entire city vaporized? No, people are not that brave. If your city's police had to arrest a hundred people a day and 80% of those were never seen again would you ever ever want to give them any reason to arrest you? If the first person to stop clapping when Stalin walked into the room was executed and their family sent off to Siberia would you ever want to stop clapping? Rule through fear works but it has to be ultimate fear. When fear is carried out through real results that affect everyone then everyone will listen. Alderaan might have been a lot like Chandrilla but Chandrilla was not bombarded from orbit because of their rebellious beliefs which only helped the rebellion there.

Yes, try that, your whole "Ultimate Fear" crap. Run it into the people and destroy everything so that they have nothing to lose. Smash your whole economy into the ground and then watch your nation fall apart under you. Or after you. Either way, you have only suppressed the rebel's. Once you're gone or once they watch your plans eat away at your own ability to stop them they'll come right back. In the end, you failed. Why? Because you thought for some stupid reason that people will listen to you because you say so.

The Empire's rule through fear was weak. One planet out of millions pfft. If they wanted to hold onto power the Death Star would be used freely and liberally. Radtroopers would outnumber Snow Troopers. A misspoken word by a world governor would get his entire planet destroyed.

Oh, smart...

This works great until someone(s) on the station comes from that world and decides they've had enough. Opps, did I just burst your bubble...?

Once people figure out that you're only plan is to destroy everything in the Galaxy then its time for total war. Everyone in everything they can fly, which includes people that fought for you until you risked their homes comes after you. All it takes is a pissed of bodyguard and your plans end. Again, go read some history from the Real World. Its happened a few times.

That is a real Doctrine of Fear that would have worked. I'm not saying the buddy up approach wouldn't have worked. But the rule through ultimate fear is a much more stable form of government.

Oh, then you could point out a nation in history some where that used your ideas and is still up and running? Just one? Or is it more likely that you're find out that every time someone has tried that they've failed...

Ultimate Fear, much like the rest of your plan is a joke. Once people live with only fear, they have nothing left to lose but their lives. Go meet someone like that just once in your life time and you'll kick yourself in the ass for ever even thinking this crap.

[Deepcrush]

Again, wow, you're pathetic...

This is what you come back with? A question about my health? Thats almost as bad as your crying about apples. If you have nothing meaningful to add to the debate and continue to fail the OP which is (crush the rebellion) then that counts as your forfeit. Unless someone who matters says otherwise then the whole matter is closed. You failed to meet the requirements of the debate (or any debate for that matter). To which you cry, cry, beg for help, then you get slapped down, then you cry more. Now you're just trying to drag it out.

You've at lost something that shouldn't even have been a win or lose matter to begin with. Get over it and move on with your life.

[Monroe]

Again, wow, you're pathetic...

This is what you come back with? A question about my health? Thats almost as bad as your crying about apples. If you have nothing meaningful to add to the debate and continue to fail the OP which is (crush the rebellion) then that counts as your forfeit. Unless someone who matters says otherwise then the whole matter is closed. You failed to meet the requirements of the debate (or any debate for that matter). To which you cry, cry, beg for help, then you get slapped down, then you cry more. Now you're just trying to drag it out.

You've at lost something that shouldn't even have been a win or lose matter to begin with. Get over it and move on with your life.

Once again you failed to respond to anything I said. So you going to run away crying cause you didn't prove to everyone how wrong I apparently am or just say you are? Don't worry I won't hound you every where you go. This reminds me of one of those iconic movie scenes, "I'm gone!" "Then go." "I'm gone!" *stays*

Number wise as everyone has pointed out its impossible to make sure there is never any rebellion no matter the plan. Crushing them means marginalizing them because of that. And my plan can do that. Back to the 1848 examples. The two countries that didn't rebel each tried our plans. England tried yours, Russia tried mine. Neither had a revolution. The only two European powers who didn't.

You wanted proof, I posted plenty of evidence. You said everyone disagreed with me, obviously not everyone does. I quote verbatim what you say, you say that I lied and made up quotes, then I posted the entirety and you say its pathetic. Are you able to admit when you're wrong or you just going to continue to make yourself look more and more foolish.

[Deepcrush]

Once again you failed to respond to anything I said. So you going to run away crying cause you didn't prove to everyone how wrong I apparently am or just say you are? Don't worry I won't hound you every where you go. This reminds me of one of those iconic movie scenes, "I'm gone!" "Then go." "I'm gone!" *stays*

I didn't say I was leaving the thread, I was just done with the debate. You have posted evidence... most of which worked against you, most of the rest had nothing to do with the topic. Thats been covered and even pointed out to you by two mods. Again, you were shown to be wrong... THEY JUST SAID IT. If this is your best, you shouldn't bother debating with the adults.

Number wise as everyone has pointed out its impossible to make sure there is never any rebellion no matter the plan. Crushing them means marginalizing them because of that. And my plan can do that. Back to the 1848 examples. The two countries that didn't rebel each tried our plans. England tried yours, Russia tried mine. Neither had a revolution. The only two European powers who didn't.

Right... there was never that pesky red revolt thingy in that October whats-it-month...

You should also look up what crushing or defeating or removing all mean. Your whole plan of making more people hate you and cause more people to turn against you... not very wise.

You wanted proof, I posted plenty of evidence. You said everyone disagreed with me, obviously not everyone does. I quote verbatim what you say, you say that I lied and made up quotes, then I posted the entirety and you say its pathetic. Are you able to admit when you're wrong or you just going to continue to make yourself look more and more foolish.

Again you're spinning your wheels for what now? I posted evidence that showed you're claims to be as mindless as you. Rochey, Tsu, Mikey all agreed I was right and even added to the points I had made. You've changed your story enough now that that they've said it might work.

As to you question about Rochey... History is kind of his thing... Being a teacher and all. So, if I have to pick between him and my Professors vs you... I'm going with option A.

Like I've said several times. If you want me to say your plan has merit, bring me something that has support with it. Not some half-brained idea that failed every time its been used or a system that has suffered from revolt and collapse. But a real plan with a real system of support backed up by evidence that has some involvement or has a statement attached to it that says why it should count. You've not done any of this and that is why you continue to fail. The whole displacement thing doesn't work against me. Either bring some reality with you or just say you need time to put something together.

Or, have Rochey or Tsu point out where I failed to counter you. If you can do even that much, I'll give your plan credit. Is that easy enough for you?

[Monroe]

Right... there was never that pesky red revolt thingy in that October whats-it-month...

Holy cow...

1917 =/= 1848!
There's a 69 year period between those two! You can't possibly mean that the events of 1848 spurred on the 1917 revolution?

wow.

Again you're spinning your wheels for what now? I posted evidence that showed you're claims to be as mindless as you. Rochey, Tsu, Mikey all agreed I was right and even added to the points I had made. You've changed your story enough now that that they've said it might work.

Where's this evidence? I might have missed it if you did it while I had you on ignore. You keep talking about it but you're not relinking it? I have to relink my evidence for you to respond to it. You won't relink your evidence if someone makes an honest mistake of skipping over it? Reason I question if this evidence even existed.

Far as changing my story. I think you mean explaining my story. See that's what debating is about. If you look at the earlier posts I was very vague. That's what happens when you don't expect to be put into a debate right away. So if explaining my view point is considered evil or something then I'm guilty as charged.

As to you question about Rochey... History is kind of his thing... Being a teacher and all. So, if I have to pick between him and my Professors vs you... I'm going with option A.

Well its me and my professors too. Doctor Triffan, formally in the band Blood Sweat and Tears is an expert in Russian history was my teacher during the bulk of my Russian history. There's going to be historians who disagree with me, that's fine. But you're not saying why they disagree or how they disagree. And Rochey only says it won't work because of the numbers involved. Reason I'm curious to hear his counter point so let's not put words into his mouth.

Like I've said several times. If you want me to say your plan has merit, bring me something that has support with it.

And I have. I'll probably continue to post more evidence occasionally which you'll probably continue to ignore until I post it two or three times. But for the most part if you've ignored all this evidence on the merit that it disagrees with you then there's not much else I can post.

But a real plan with a real system of support backed up by evidence that has some involvement or has a statement attached to it that says why it should count. You've not done any of this and that is why you continue to fail.

Are you asking me to explain the system in finer detail? So far we've been using very broad terms. But I can explain in finer detail. Problem Deep, is that arguing with you is you usually ignore counter points so I don't know if you're reading or skimming through this, and you don't ask for more information. Like with your historians I've asked, again and again, for more information. But you simply dismiss the information I've provided so something that might be helpful like a more detailed plan its taken you until page 22, 23? To even think about asking. I'll try to have a break down of the plan, similar to my fleet break down.

Or, have Rochey or Tsu point out where I failed to counter you. If you can do even that much, I'll give your plan credit. Is that easy enough for you?

Sure if other people want to talk about evidence's credibility that's fine. We talked about the Milgram one but that's about it. Stitch pointed out that your historians don't seem to belong in the debate but because Stitch has agreed with me for awhile you ignored that. But yeah let's discuss sources and credibility.

Does someone like Dolgun deserve to be taken seriously who lived through the event? Or does someone who wrote about Nixon deserve to be taken more seriously about an event that AFAIK has nothing to do with their area of expertise?

[Deepcrush]

Thats really all that needs to be said about that BS... Everything you've been posting has been shown to fail. Over and over. Until you bring something new and meaningful. It just wont be worth my time to deal with. You got spanked, you know you got spanked, otherwise you wouldn't be bitching this much. Its the same reason chakat used to beg for help from people. He knew he lost and he wanted an out other then admitting he messed up.

If you want 20 pages of links then you should just go back and read the thread over again. Its a lot easier for everything involved.

As to stitch, he admitted that he didn't understand the scale of things and then he stepped out. He threw a little bash-wannabe in there with it. But it comes out to the same in the end.

You cry that I ignore you points, well, get a mod to point that out. Thats what they're here for, to help with the forum. When you do that then I'll respond. If I can't contend the point then I'll concede to it. However, you've done little but repost things that have already been covered and countered. Come up with something new. Until then, you're still just crying "no no no" as far as I'm concerned.

[Monroe]

Thats really all that needs to be said about that BS... Everything you've been posting has been shown to fail. Over and over. Until you bring something new and meaningful. It just wont be worth my time to deal with. You got spanked, you know you got spanked, otherwise you wouldn't be bitching this much. Its the same reason chakat used to beg for help from people. He knew he lost and he wanted an out other then admitting he messed up.

... you just suggested bringing in people to help you... I guess you thought I'd say no but when I said I was up for it you double backed? You're also the one who constantly feels the need to point out that everyone must be against me. Even when I point out they're not...

If you want 20 pages of links then you should just go back and read the thread over again. Its a lot easier for everything involved.

Well since I obviously can't read, why don't you relink those links you said you posted earlier in the thread? There must be dozens of them for 20 pages worth. Please relink them. I fail too much to be able to see them on my own.

This is where he does an insult and refuses to back up his claim yet again

As to stitch, he admitted that he didn't understand the scale of things and then he stepped out. He threw a little bash-wannabe in there with it. But it comes out to the same in the end.

I read his leaving as him getting annoyed with talking to a wall.

You cry that I ignore you points, well, get a mod to point that out. Thats what they're here for, to help with the forum. When you do that then I'll respond. If I can't contend the point then I'll concede to it. However, you've done little but repost things that have already been covered and countered. Come up with something new. Until then, you're still just crying "no no no" as far as I'm concerned.

Your track record isn't very good. Sure I'll post more but I doubt you'll respond to them. Or if you do you'll simply dismiss them without going into any detail or having your own counter evidence.

[Deepcrush]

All and all, there are three options for you.

1. I'm ignoring facts in which you can have a mod tell be to do so or concede. This is against the guidelines of the forum and within their reach.

2. Get a mod to point out something that I've missed. This is their job, to help out with things such as this where people can't come together.

3. Continue to cry. You've run out of evidence and explains why you repeat the same defeated points over and over.

All three work fine for me.