ENT's intro

[Mikey]

"meh" for me. I had no issue with the theme of the intro being different from typical 'Trek - I just thought the song was lousy on its own merits. Yes, the images were very "America-centric," but it's to be expected from an American-produced show.

Oh, really? TOS wasn't America-centric at all. In fact I wouldn't call TNG, DS9 or VOY that either. Why do we suddenly expect ENT to be so?

Calm down. I never said it was better that way, nor did I say it was to be expected based on "Trek precedent - I said it was to be expected from an American-produced TV show in general, and I said it without a positive value judgement.

I could very easily say that Fawlty Towers or 'Allo, 'Allo (even though it was based in France) are very Anglo-centric shows. But why would I bother? Of course they are! If your point is that there is a significant let-down in certain qualities from past 'Trek to ENT, then you'll certainly get no argument from me.

[Graham Kennedy]

"meh" for me. I had no issue with the theme of the intro being different from typical 'Trek - I just thought the song was lousy on its own merits. Yes, the images were very "America-centric," but it's to be expected from an American-produced show.

Oh, really? TOS wasn't America-centric at all. In fact I wouldn't call TNG, DS9 or VOY that either. Why do we suddenly expect ENT to be so?

Calm down.

I'm perfectly calm.

I never said it was better that way, nor did I say it was to be expected based on "Trek precedent - I said it was to be expected from an American-produced TV show in general, and I said it without a positive value judgement.

This is what I find strange. Why is it to be expected that an American show will be American centric? Particularly when previous incarnations of the show were not. Or at least, were less so.

I could very easily say that Fawlty Towers or 'Allo, 'Allo (even though it was based in France) are very Anglo-centric shows. But why would I bother? Of course they are! If your point is that there is a significant let-down in certain qualities from past 'Trek to ENT, then you'll certainly get no argument from me.

I don't think it's really a valid argument given that those shows aren't part of an attempt to depict an Earth in which the world's nations have merged into one world government, which is further a member of a multiplanetary society. If they were, then yes, I would indeed blame them for being Anglo-centric.

What interests me is not attacking the fact of this change, but rather wondering why it happened. Have American TV audiences become less accepting or interested in seeing non-Americans on their TV screens? If so, why?

[Captain Seafort]

One episode out of 78. 1.28% does not America-centric make.

Three episodes straight off ("The Omega Glory", "The Savage Curtain" and Shore Leave"). "Tommorrow is Yesterday", "Assignment: Earth", "A Piece of the Action", "Spectre of the Gun", "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky".

Three, then, for a whopping 3.8%. Though how is "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" or "Shore Leave" American episodes?

Shore Leave was probably the worst in terms of Americanisation - Kirk calling the Cheshire Cat "American".

You're right about "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" - I was thinking about "City on the Edge of Forever". Why can't people stick to nice simple titles instead of whole sentences?

[Sionnach Glic]

What was so American about City? I haven't seen that in quite a while.

[Captain Seafort]

The fact that the entire thing was set in Chicago? Most of it I don't mind - it's a US series, so they're not going to base their episode in Jarrow. It's the more blantant jingoism, like The Omega Glory, or the Cheshire Cat incident, that irritates.

[Mikey]

What interests me is not attacking the fact of this change, but rather wondering why it happened. Have American TV audiences become less accepting or interested in seeing non-Americans on their TV screens? If so, why?

If your point is that there is a significant let-down in certain qualities from past 'Trek to ENT, then you'll certainly get no argument from me.

Unfortunately, there's not much mroe that I can add to that.

[Sonic Glitch]

This is what I find strange. Why is it to be expected that an American show will be American centric? Particularly when previous incarnations of the show were not. Or at least, were less so.

Maybe because those other shows had legetimate thought behind them? (yes even Voyager). Remember, this is Enterprise we're talking about! (no offense to you who enjoy the series.)

[Sionnach Glic]

Could the increased American-centrism have been an attempt to get more Americans interested in the show? Rather than showing a universe that would require a modicum of knowledge of different cultures, they decided to show their target audience a culture they were already familiar with.

Just a thought.

[stitch626]

Perhaps it was an attempt to instill patriotism in Americans. It was right after 9/11... I think.

[Lazar]

I think Star Trek became increasingly derelict in trying to depict non-American human characters. (See this piece on EAS.) I mean, in reality a huge portion of the crew should have been from East Asia, South Asia, Africa, etc.

If you look at the human or human-based characters over time:

Kirk - American
Spock - human side indeterminate
McCoy - American
Sulu - American
Scotty - Scottish
Chekhov - Russian
Uhura - East African

Picard - magical Franco-English
Riker - American
Data - creator indeterminate
Crusher - presumably American
Troi - father presumably American
Geordi - indeterminate

Sisko - American
Bashir - Sudanese
O'Brien - Irish

Janeway - American
Chakotay - American (from an undifferentiated, unnamed American Indian tribe)
Kim - American
Paris - American
Doctor - based on an American
Seven - indeterminate, maybe Danish
Torres - human side indeterminate

Archer - American
Tucker - American
Reed - English
Mayweather - presumably American
Sato - presumably Japanese

And the human minor characters and extras were typically less diverse than the main cast. (And almost every time when they went back in time on Earth, they went to somewhere in the US.) Whereas in reality, Americans are only about 5% of the world population.

[stitch626]

As of right now. Who knows what happens during WWIII.
Perhaps America was one of the few surviving countries afterwards.
Just a possibility.

[Aaron]

As of right now. Who knows what happens during WWIII.
Perhaps America was one of the few surviving countries afterwards.
Just a possibility.

Riker states in FC that there were 600 million dead in WWIII. There's 6+ billion in the world right now, 300 odd million in America. The math doesn't quite add up, especially as America, Europe and parts of Asia would be the priority targets in a nuclear war. Simply because that's where the industry and the most powerful militaries are.

[Sonic Glitch]

I like my idea.

This is what I find strange. Why is it to be expected that an American show will be American centric? Particularly when previous incarnations of the show were not. Or at least, were less so.

Maybe because those other shows had legetimate thought behind them? (yes even Voyager). Remember, this is Enterprise we're talking about! (no offense to you who enjoy the series.)

[stitch626]

Ah good point Kendall.
Though there may have been other wars in individual countries (like a civil war in China or India).
And we have very little information on the Eugenics wars (exept that it should have happened by now ).

[Lazar]

Of course, it's a problem that's quite common in American science fiction. Like in Babylon 5, all of the major human characters were American, except Ivanova. It was the sort of thing that I didn't really notice when I was younger, but now it really bugs me, and I'm determined that when I write scifi stories, the human characters have to be predominately non-American.

It would be horrible if the explanation was that the US was the only surviving country. I think the real explanation is that the makers of the shows get lazy, they want the audience to identify easily with the characters, they don't want to bother writing foreign characters, or getting foreign actors, or getting people to do good accents, etc.

Now for example, I think Heroes has done a better job than TNG, VOY, ENT or B5 of having an international ensemble cast, and that show isn't even set in space.

I like my idea.

Lol.