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Captain Seafort
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Post by Captain Seafort »

We could probably fill a few pages of "why Janeway should be court-martialed".

Of the top of my head:

Caretaker: Strands her crew in the DQ because she hasn't heard of a timer.

The Swarm: Risks the entire ship by taking a shortcut through the space of entremely territorial aliens.

Scorpion: Tries to form an alliance with the Borg (against the advice of pretty much everyone).

The Raven: Comits acts of war against an alien species.

Year of Hell: Persists in trying to move through Krenim space, despite their proven hostile nature and military superiority.

Equinox: Tries to stick an Equinox crew member in the same room as a hostile alien as an interogation technique.

Unimatrix Zero: Attacks the most powerful ship in the Borg fleet, despite the fact that the infection trick would work on any Borg ship.

Plus uncountable examples of ignoring the prime directive and/or taking time off from the business of going home to investigate some (usually dangerous) anomaly or other.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
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Post by Sionnach Glic »

I'm sure there's plenty more where they came from.
I'm surprised no one on the ship attemted a mutiny. I know I would have.
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Post by Teaos »

Screw that. Morals are one thing but when I am in a ship stranded tens of thousands of light years from home I WANT someone like Janeway to take charge. She gets the job done.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

Teaos wrote:Screw that. Morals are one thing but when I am in a ship stranded tens of thousands of light years from home I WANT someone like Janeway to take charge. She gets the job done.
I'm not talking about morals, most of those examples are of Janeway putting the ship in danger, usually to try and take a shortcut. I'd rather get home a few years later than be scattered across the Delta Quadrent in a million pieces because the Captain's pissed someone off. Not to mention that if it wasn't for her stupidity in "Caretaker" they wouldn't have had to take the long way home in the first place.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
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Post by Teaos »

The caretaker was a plot device but it served its purpose.

As for the rest of it I support most of her decissions but not all of them. A captain has to make hard decisions and she does.
What does defeat mean to you?

Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

Teaos wrote:The caretaker was a plot device but it served its purpose.
It was still a stupid decision, which could have been solved by a) letting the Kazon have the array and go home, b) going home and leaving a bomb on a timer or c) go home and leave someone behind to ttriggera bomb manually.

A better plot device would have been to have the array built by a local species and kidnapping AQ ships to prepare for an invasion (also via the array). Voyager destroys the array, preventing the invasion but also stranding the ship in the DQ, and providing an ongoing threat a la the Kazon.
As for the rest of it I support most of her decisions but not all of them. A captain has to make hard decisions and she does.
She doesn't make "hard" decisions she makes stupid decisions. If a species is known to be highly territorial, and with significant military strength you do not try and barge through their space - you go around. If that adds weeks, months, or even years to your journey so be it, getting home at all is the main objective, and getting home quickly is secondary to that.
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Post by Teaos »

The Krenim doesn't count since it never happened and the Swarm was just stupid. She didn't say "Screw it we're blasting out way through" that often.
What does defeat mean to you?

Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

Teaos wrote:The Krenim doesn't count since it never happened and the Swarm was just stupid. She didn't say "Screw it we're blasting out way through" that often.
The Krenim do count. The fact that there was a reset button and she made the correct decision second time around does not refute the stupidity of the original decision.

It seemed that every other week Voyager would either try blasting through a given sector without the local's permission, or would start off with their permission and piss them off halfway through and have to fight the rest of the way.

As for taking on the Borg, the Dark Frontier tactic of nicking a transwarp coil from a damaged ship seemed like a good idea on the surface, albeit rather fraught. The tactic of taking on the Tactical Cube in Unimatrix Zero was downright stupid - the trick would have worked with any Borg ship and they attack the most powerful ship they've got.
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Post by Teaos »

It was closest and maybe only chance for a long time. You cant just count on a Borg cube to show up when you need one.
What does defeat mean to you?

Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Post by Granitehewer »

An intrepid took on a cube.........and i missed it.......damn it to hell!!!
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Post by Teaos »

Not just an Intrepid... VOYAGER. God knows how strong that ship is after all this time.
What does defeat mean to you?

Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Post by Granitehewer »

Voyager should have lasted a while then,with its countless A-team like modifications, i'd like to hope, that if a cube took on a generic unmodified intrepid,that the federation ship would have been swatted aside....at least for continuity purposes :D
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Post by Sionnach Glic »

Don't foget that Janeway seems to often ignore advice and goes out of her way to encounter or go through completely unknown spatial phenomena that could damage the ship.

There have been several episodes where the ship is in danger due to the stupidity of her or one of the officers. They are not the people I want to have to trust to get me home.
As for the rest of it I support most of her decisions but not all of them. A captain has to make hard decisions and she does.
Yeah, but she often makes stupid decisions when faced with problems.
Admiral Adama had to put up with her problems and more, and he is still ten times the commander than Janeway is due to the fact he actually tries to avoid danger and damage to his ship.

I'm amazed that Janeway wasn't court martialed the moment Starfleet found out what happened out there.
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Post by Teaos »

If stupidity is a cause for dismissal then 90% of starfleet is screwed.
What does defeat mean to you?

Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

Teaos wrote:If stupidity is a cause for dismissal then 90% of starfleet is screwed.
True, but Janeway seems to exibit this endemic stupidity both more freqently and more severely than normal - Caretaker, The Swarm, Equinox and Unimatrix Zero being what I'd consider the worst examples.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
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