Ship of the week: Nova

[Sionnach Glic]

And if point 2 stands then why are you still arguing against me on the offensivness of the way you used the word.

Calling someone a 'bitch' would also be offensive to female dogs.
Why do either of these offenses matter?

[Blackstar the Chakat]

because despite my physical appearence I consider myself to be a Chakat.

[Thorin]

Oh right... I get you now.

Well, this is the point.

I don't care if I'm being offensive towards cats or dogs. Or any other animal that is not intelligent enough to understand anything about... anything.

[Mikey]

OK - while I have never claimed that an American football player is tougher than any other particular athlete in a similar sport, I suppose that conception has arisen, so I can see your dislike of that idea. To clear a few things up:

Yes, the number of time-outs is annoying - that's due the fact that the sports are televised for big revenues, not a fact of the sport itself.

There are 53 roster spots on a team, with 11 men on the field at a time.

Jim's right. As far as sheer physical strength alone, I don't believe any other team-sport athletes compare to NFL offensive linemen. I know personally former pro linemen who, in playing shape, did full sets of standing military presses with over 300 lbs. (approx. 140 kg) and leg presses of 1500 lbs. My brother-in-law, at an NFL scouting combine, had to play against 245-lb. linebackers who were able to run 4.4 second 40's.

If you simply don't like the sport, then fine - I don't like curling, but some of my Canuck friends do. However, don't claim that these people aren't strong, tough and able simply because they don't play your preferred sport.

Hockey players are pretty tough SOB's, but I don't really care for the sport - it's played on a surface that normal people try to avoid.

And Thorin - we know what you meant by the p-word. If someone is offended by it, then let's just try to accomodate them, OK? You seem to be an intelligent person - I have no doubt that you could express yourself effectively without using that one term. If you said that football players acted like a bunch of kikes, wouldn't I have the right to be offended?

[Thorin]

Well the fact of the matter is that American football is televised - so the breaks are there. It's not just a 5 minute break every 10 minutes. I've seen a game where the last 2 minutes lasted half an hour. You don't think that's not just annoying - but ridiculous?

I fail to see how you can possibly say that on physical strength that American football players are stronger than others - some rugby players are able to bench 500 lb. The only comparison that could possibly be dreamed of making is that they're similar - they both go to the gym as often as they can. Unless there's anything backing up anything otherwise.

I don't like the sport, and I haven't claimed that they're not strong or able. Tough... Arguable. That's more relative. It depends on exactly what you mean - I could claim to be tougher than NFL players. In that I don't wear pads, and I don't [almost certainly falsely] claim to be in the hardest hitting sport in the world. I'd love to have our college in a game of American football and then a game of rugby against an American college.

What I am claiming is that American Footballers aren't the 'toughest', 'most able', 'strongest', 'fittest', 'best'... of all sports. That is the potrayal it is given. I don't disagree that it has a certain level. But just not the level it is given.

And regarding the use of the word pussy - I made no personal comment based on prejudice or discriminative ideas I may or may not have. I may have offended a cat. I don't care. If I had however called them Kikes, I may have offended Jews. I would care. But I did not say that. I said something that wouldn't offend anyone - except maybe cats. It was a simple bit of friendly banter.

[Mikey]

Well, bench-pressing 500 lbs. is certainly no great feat for an American football offensive lineman. As I said, some of these guys can do full sets of reps of standing military presses w/ 300 lbs., and some have bench-pressed 1.5 times your 500-lb. figure, or more.

But it really isn't the point. I was simply responding to what you called them. The fact that there are other physically-gruelling sports out there doesn't make the players of this sport... er... kittens.

Heck, I could claim to be tougher than many people because I self-inject myself four times a day, and many folks would faint at giving themselves injections. But the pads are there in football because different forms of violent physical contact are integral to many different aspects of the sport. I think it's telling that American football players wear as many protective devices as they do, yet such horrific injuries can and do still occur - broken necks, nerve damage, all manner of torn cruciate ligaments, sports hernias, of course concussions, etc. I'm sure rugby players get injured too, but the fact that there are any still left, without the use of pads, says something about the relative nature of the two games.

[Thorin]

Well, bench-pressing 500 lbs. is certainly no great feat for an American football offensive lineman. As I said, some of these guys can do full sets of reps of standing military presses w/ 300 lbs., and some have bench-pressed 1.5 times your 500-lb. figure, or more.

After having seen someone called Allen (?), supposedly the strongest guy in the NFL, point conceded. He's huge. But doesn't look like he could run what so ever. He can bench 700 lb, so not quite 1.5 times the 500 lb figure or more.

But it really isn't the point. I was simply responding to what you called them. The fact that there are other physically-gruelling sports out there doesn't make the players of this sport... er... kittens.

That point was a bit of friendly banter. Friendly competition.

There are two things, and two things alone, and I think to an extent you agree. The first is that simply, I don't like American football for a variety of reasons. My opinion.
The thing I don't like, though, is the reputation and potrayal it has. That it is the ultimate sport, for the best sportsmen and only the toughest can do it. The only reason I said rugby, for example, would be tougher, is because that sport I most easily recognise. Rugby players take most probably harder hits - they travel faster due to no padding and can see better. This is to show the potrayal that the NFL is the toughest sport in the world, is just wrong. Boxing is another sport.

[Mikey]

You're right - if you brought up boxing, I could bring up muay thai. I just find it interesting because in America - the home of American football (duh!) - a tremendous amount of respect is given to players of rugby and Aussie football. I really don't encounter the same superiority complex about football which you describe.

And I think you were referring to Erik Allen, formerly of the Dallas Cowboys, but I think that's a little outdated. There is a true freshman at Rutgers University - 18 years old - who stands around 6'7" and weighs in at 375 lbs. And while these guys don't have sprinter speed, many of them can move, and have to move, a great deal faster and for longer than you might think. Of course, they have to get an oxygen mask when they've finished moving...

[Tsukiyumi]

...all manner of torn cruciate ligaments...

Ack! You just had to say 'torn ligament'. Trust me, you tear an ACL, you won't be running or even walking much, let alone playing sports unless you luck out big time and get a successful surgery. The failure rate of ACL surgeries is 70%. That and the excessive price are why I never got mine fixed.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

And regarding the use of the word pussy - I made no personal comment based on prejudice or discriminative ideas I may or may not have. I may have offended a cat. I don't care. If I had however called them Kikes, I may have offended Jews. I would care. But I did not say that. I said something that wouldn't offend anyone - except maybe cats. It was a simple bit of friendly banter.

Like I said, I consider myself a Chakat and we are feline in nature.

[Mikey]

Ack! You just had to say 'torn ligament'. Trust me, you tear an ACL, you won't be running or even walking much, let alone playing sports unless you luck out big time and get a successful surgery. The failure rate of ACL surgeries is 70%. That and the excessive price are why I never got mine fixed.

Well, the surgeries are far more common and effective when a professional sports franchise is footing the bill and fielding their own doctors, but you're right. Although, I believe ICL surgeries are more succesful than ACL's. Sorry to hear about your predicament.

[Jim]

because despite my physical appearence I consider myself to be a Chakat.

That's a bit disturbing...

[Jim]

What I am claiming is that American Footballers aren't the 'toughest', 'most able', 'strongest', 'fittest', 'best'... of all sports. That is the potrayal it is given. I don't disagree that it has a certain level. But just not the level it is given.

I will stand by my opinion of them being the strongest. However, in the same post I comment that linemen can't run very far before basically falling over, therefore they would not be the fittest etc. Every real sport has it's extremes. (I say real to avoid comparisons between soccer player and poker players, etc)

[Jim]

And regarding the use of the word pussy - I made no personal comment based on prejudice or discriminative ideas I may or may not have. I may have offended a cat. I don't care. If I had however called them Kikes, I may have offended Jews. I would care. But I did not say that. I said something that wouldn't offend anyone - except maybe cats. It was a simple bit of friendly banter.

Like I said, I consider myself a Chakat and we are feline in nature.

Yep, still disturbing.

[Tsukiyumi]

Well, Sumo wrestlers are real athletes, but I'd like to see one of them climb a flight of stairs (I really hate stairs myself, but...). Every sport focuses on certain attributes to a degree by their nature.