Ship of the week: Nova

[Mikey]

I'd appreciate the info, too - I think my wife can locate the genealogical data, but I'm stuffed if I know what to do with it.

[Thorin]

I personally know a number of former professional, NFL American football players, and don't ever say that it's for "wimps" (I defer to Blackstar's request, rather than using a direct quote) until you know what you're talking about. Jack Youngblood - played for three quarters - that's 45 minutes - on a broken leg. Not a fracture, or a hairline, a real broken tibia. Chuck Bednarik - tore his lower biceps tendon during a game so that the muscle rolled up inside his arm like a windowshade. He smoothed it back down, wrapped it at the lower end with some medical tape, and finished the game. The list could continue. I know American football players who have faked even knowing what city they were in (by looking at advertisements, scoreboards, etc.) after concussions in order to continue playing. I'm not saying that rugby isn't rough; I'm just saying that until you know what you're talking about, don't make a spurious comment.

That is outstanding ignorance. I do know what I'm talking about. I play rugby for my college and use to for my school. I've also played the odd round of American Football - there's no comparison. It doesn't hurt. You're just stuffed in a bag of comfyness, put a helmet on, and then just roll around, expecting to get hit and just nothing happens. The tackles aren't as hard, the game isn't as fast - both in play and because the clock stops for 1 minute ever 10 seconds or so. That injury list really isn't that bad - I've seen worse on the ameteur scene. Even I - and I'm by no means a very strong/large build (I play centre/wing) - have played an entire match after breaking my collar bone just after half time.
There's also a saying.
Footballers [our soccer] spend 90 minutes pretending they're injured.
Rugby League players spend 80 minutes pretending they're not.
- Just a nice saying, doesn't really say anything about American football.

American football simply isn't as powerful, strong, or fast as rugby. It just isn't - and I speak from a perspective of having played a bit of both. You, assumedly, have never played rugby league.

BTW - Rugby League is not Rugby Union. Union being the boring, 15 men aside kick-fest that we have just seen on TV as the World Cup.

[Mikey]

How is it ignorance to say that American football players aren't (expetive deleted) and then to provide evidence for it? What is ignorance is the idea that you must attack one thing in order to support something else. Don't be defensive - I wasn't the one deriding a sport you appreciate; it was the other way around. And while I haven't played much rugby itself, I have played Austrailian-rules football, which I'm told is similar and from which American football is descended. Which is actually a moot point, because I never felt the need to hate rugby in order to appreciate American football.

And when have you played against at least collegiate-level, NCAA American football players? It's very easy to say you have played a pickup game agaisnt your mates, but that hardly proves anything one way or the other. You saying that it doesn't hurt only means that you haven't played against anybody who was any good at it.

BTW - You're right - it's NOT rugby. There is actual strategy and planning involved, as well as displays of individual dedication and athleticism. The goal isn't to hurt or to be hurt. That happens as an ancillary effect.

[Jim]

I always felt that Australian Football players were the toughest, followed by the harder of the Rugby versions. I never considered American Football players necessarily extra tough. However, I would definately say that American Football players are the strongest. Any lineman in the league could probably flip a car by himself. Linebackers and Fullbacks are also quite strong.

Please note, I am NOT saying that Aussy Footballers and Rugby players (Rugbiers?) aren't strong, they definately are, but American Football linemen are houses. However, they can probably only run 15 yards before they are ready to fall over... so it's all on the way you want to look at it.

I feel that the above is a rather unbiased view as I do not follow (as a fan) American Football, Rugby or Aussy Football.

I mean... everyone knows that hockey players are technically the toughest... but they can't skate well on the pitch so a comparison is pointless

[Blackstar the Chakat]

I mean... everyone knows that hockey players are technically the toughest... but they can't skate well on the pitch so a comparison is pointless

Ice football. There's a real sport!

[Thorin]

How is it ignorance to say that American football players aren't (expetive deleted) and then to provide evidence for it?

The ignorance was saying I don't know what I'm talking about - implying I have no idea what the sport is about or have ever played it.

What is ignorance is the idea that you must attack one thing in order to support something else. Don't be defensive - I wasn't the one deriding a sport you appreciate; it was the other way around.

It isn't because I am mutually exclusive in the sports I like - it isn't because I like rugby that I dislike American football. I just dislike it - it's boring, slow, and - while perhaps not the sport itself - is given a rep of being the toughest sport around when it really isn't.

And while I haven't played much rugby itself, I have played Austrailian-rules football, which I'm told is similar and from which American football is descended. Which is actually a moot point, because I never felt the need to hate rugby in order to appreciate American football.

It's moot point to you - but the fact of the matter is I simply dislike American football - but not because I like rugby.

And when have you played against at least collegiate-level, NCAA American football players? It's very easy to say you have played a pickup game agaisnt your mates, but that hardly proves anything one way or the other. You saying that it doesn't hurt only means that you haven't played against anybody who was any good at it.

Maybe not particularly good at - but a good few I played with were people from my current rugby squad. They ain't no slouches.

BTW - You're right - it's NOT rugby. There is actual strategy and planning involved, as well as displays of individual dedication and athleticism. The goal isn't to hurt or to be hurt. That happens as an ancillary effect.

The goal in rugby isn't to hurt. What I dislike, not about the sport itself - as I have said, is the overall massive reputation it is, in my opinion, undeservedly given. I dislike the sport. But I don't compare the actual games to each other - it's what's behind it.

I'm not sure about the individual strength of players themselves - presumably they'd be about the same - you can only go to the gym and lift certain weights so many times. If it's your job to be strong ('props' in rugby league, or your linemen) then it's likely you're going to be similar strength.

To re-iterate - my actual dislike of the sport is just that - I just do not like it. My gripe with it is how it is built up and portrayed as the toughest of the tough.

[Jim]

My gripe with it is how it is built up and portrayed as the toughest of the tough.

Chuch Norris fears nothing... other than Gary Roberts. Now THAT is tough... and Gary Roberts plays hockey.

[Thorin]

Also a side note, I don't and never will considering the word 'pussy' in the sense of a young cat a profanity - so don't presume I am swearing directly at players of American football... I also fail to see how anyone else would consider it a profanity, but that's what you get in a politically correct climate...

[Jim]

When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.

... this is obviously my attempt to keep this "debate" light hearted...

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Also a side note, I don't and never will considering the word 'pussy' in the sense of a young cat a profanity - so don't presume I am swearing directly at players of American football... I also fail to see how anyone else would consider it a profanity, but that's what you get in a politically correct climate...

I don't consider it a profanity, but the way you used it was offensive. 1)It is also used to refer to female genitalia, and using it to call someone weak suggest that you think women are infearior. 2)It is also offensive to felines.

[Teaos]

I always considered American football players wimps for wearing all that armour. Rugby is faster and harder. I have tried to watch maybe 5 games of american football and couldnt get over how much time out they had. Also that they have like 5000 (exagerating) members in a team.

[Thorin]

I don't consider it a profanity, but the way you used it was offensive. 1)It is also used to refer to female genitalia, and using it to call someone weak suggest that you think women are infearior. 2)It is also offensive to felines.

I used it jokingly. Point 1 is pointless and utterly modern slang. The parallel drawn is that young cats aren't exactly the strongest or bravest thing - which is how pussy transfers across.
I used it in the sense of 'wuss', 'wimp', 'un-brave'. That definition was pretty clear, so to call that a profanity is like when you're talking about a bitch - a female dog, a bastard - a person without a father/illegitimate, a guy called dick - short for Richard. The point of the matter is that it isn't a swear word, and many people just encompass everything under a profanity when it isn't meant to be.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

I don't consider it a profanity, but the way you used it was offensive. 1)It is also used to refer to female genitalia, and using it to call someone weak suggest that you think women are infearior. 2)It is also offensive to felines.

I used it jokingly. Point 1 is pointless and utterly modern slang. The parallel drawn is that young cats aren't exactly the strongest or bravest thing - which is how pussy transfers across.
I used it in the sense of 'wuss', 'wimp', 'un-brave'. That definition was pretty clear, so to call that a profanity is like when you're talking about a bitch - a female dog, a ******* - a person without a father/illegitimate, a guy called dick - short for Richard. The point of the matter is that it isn't a swear word, and many people just encompass everything under a profanity when it isn't meant to be.

Like I said, I don't consider it a profanity. I consider it offensive. There are plenty of other terms you could have used to convey the messege. You listed some of them yourself(wuss, wimp, unbrave). And point 2 still stands.

[Thorin]

Like I said, I don't consider it a profanity. I consider it offensive. There are plenty of other terms you could have used to convey the messege. You listed some of them yourself(wuss, wimp, unbrave). And point 2 still stands.

I could have used different terms - your point?
If I am describing someone as an idiot, would people then say 'that is offensive, please use a different word such as moron, stupid person, retard'. It all means the same thing - only people expecting to think of everything in the most politically correct way see it in a different manner.
And point 2 does still stand, I completely agree. It was very offensive to cats.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Like I said, I don't consider it a profanity. I consider it offensive. There are plenty of other terms you could have used to convey the messege. You listed some of them yourself(wuss, wimp, unbrave). And point 2 still stands.

I could have used different terms - your point?
If I am describing someone as an idiot, would people then say 'that is offensive, please use a different word such as moron, stupid person, retard'. It all means the same thing - only people expecting to think of everything in the most politically correct way see it in a different manner.
And point 2 does still stand, I completely agree. It was very offensive to cats.

Well, the difference is that I don't know of any alternate meaning to idiot. Also on a not so important point, retard is offensive to mentally disabled people...well that ones that understand it anyway.

And if point 2 stands then why are you still arguing against me on the offensivness of the way you used the word.