Worst "advanced" sci-fi military?

[The Wormhole]

To be fair, they performed quite well under the circumstances. And nearly all of the whining was from Hudson anyway.

They just annoyed the hell out of me. In fact, I thought the convicts in Alien 3 were alot more heroic and mature than any of the Marines in Aliens.

[I Am Spartacus]

Storm Troopers in Return of the Jedi. Yes, professional soldiers, well trained and battle hardened, with advanced armour and weaponry, not to mention huge numbers, are beaten by a bunch of tree dwelling gremlins hurling little rocks?

Or what about A New Hope? Thirty fighters attacking a ship that is supposed to mount hundreds of thousands of cannon and carry tens of thousands of fighters manage somehow to succeed? Its only weak point is a small thermal exhaust port only two metres wide, and somehow it's not completely surrounded by thousands of defensive weapons and hundreds of fighters flying combat air patrol?

[DBS]

Storm Troopers in Return of the Jedi. Yes, professional soldiers, well trained and battle hardened, with advanced armour and weaponry, not to mention huge numbers, are beaten by a bunch of tree dwelling gremlins hurling little rocks?

Or what about A New Hope? Thirty fighters attacking a ship that is supposed to mount hundreds of thousands of cannon and carry tens of thousands of fighters manage somehow to succeed? Its only weak point is a small thermal exhaust port only two metres wide, and somehow it's not completely surrounded by thousands of defensive weapons and hundreds of fighters flying combat air patrol?

Yep. And at some point the Empire figured out what the Rebels were trying to do! So you'd think they'd scramble every single fighter to protect it!

I submit TIE fighters in general. Mostly no shields, mostly no hyperdrive, tend to fly like bricks (or Stukas ), tiny field of fire, and poor weapon range.

[I Am Spartacus]

Space fighters in general make no sense. Since there is no such thing as weight or drag in space, the only limit on a vessel's speed is how powerful an engine it can mount, and on it's maneuverability the amount of thrusters it can mount. Thusly, a massive ship packed from end to end with thrusters and a huge and powerful engine is going to be way more agile and faster than a fighter with a tiny engine and only a few thrusters.

Fighters can't even dodge enemy fire in space either. Because there's no air resistance in space, nothing acts to slow down or alter the path of a projectile or beam. Therefore, range for weapons is practically unlimited. With advanced aiming techniques, there's no way that defensive gunners could possibly miss, turning every single fighter attack into a suicide mission. The only way to survive would be to build ever larger ships capable of withstanding tremendous damage.

In this sense, Trek made sense for a long time. Until Deep Space Nine, we never saw any fighter craft, which made sense because there won't be any in space. You might have small one or two man ships for patrol, anti-smuggling, etc, but never for serious warfare.

[Captain Seafort]

Storm Troopers in Return of the Jedi. Yes, professional soldiers, well trained and battle hardened, with advanced armour and weaponry, not to mention huge numbers, are beaten by a bunch of tree dwelling gremlins hurling little rocks?

A bunch of tree-dwelling gremlins that had home-turf advantage, a collection of pre-prepared traps and were significantly stronger than a human. And the stormies were still winning until they had one of their own walkers turned against them.

Or what about A New Hope? Thirty fighters attacking a ship that is supposed to mount hundreds of thousands of cannon and carry tens of thousands of fighters manage somehow to succeed? Its only weak point is a small thermal exhaust port only two metres wide, and somehow it's not completely surrounded by thousands of defensive weapons and hundreds of fighters flying combat air patrol?

Simple arrogance - Tarkin was told that the Rebel attack posed a threat, and simply ignored it, believing that the Death Star was indestructable. With the result that he learned the hard way that supidity is often a capital offence.

[Sionnach Glic]

" Sir, we've checked the rebels attack course and there is a danger. Shall I have your shuttle standing by?"
"Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you over estimate their chances."

Tarkin was arrogant, but he had a point. They were trying to hit a two meter wide target protected by thousands of weapon emplacements. And remember, Luke only hit it because he turned his targeting systems off and used the force. It was a total fluke.

Seafort hit the Endor thing on the head there so I won't bother with that.

Space fighters in general make no sense.

Of course they don't. But the average guy dosen't know that. Hell, the average writer dosen't know that.

[I Am Spartacus]

Not quite he isn't. We see many Stormtroopers die after being hit by rocks or tripped using vines. These are fit men with body armour and the whole shabang. They should have suffered a grand total of zero casualties.

The AT-ST shouldn't have even been captured. I don't see how a couple of 2 feet tall teddy bears could have captured an armoured vehicle from a pair of well trained and experienced soldiers, even with Chewbacca.

[I Am Spartacus]

A bunch of tree-dwelling gremlins that had home-turf advantage, a collection of pre-prepared traps and were significantly stronger than a human. And the stormies were still winning until they had one of their own walkers turned against them.

That doesn't make sense. As I said, they should have suffered zero casualties. They were well trained and equipped men, with superior numbers. I don't know if you've seen it, but the "traps" amounted to hurling rocks or tripping troops over with vines.

And again, there's no way a couple of teddy bears could have seized an armoured vehicle in the first place.

You seriously think that a bunch of oversized plush toys could defeat an entire legion of the Empire's best troops? By legion, I'm assuming the Emperior meant a unit equivalent in size to an infantry division of today, which means somewhere between 8,000 and 15,000 men.

Simple arrogance - Tarkin was told that the Rebel attack posed a threat, and simply ignored it, believing that the Death Star was indestructable. With the result that he learned the hard way that supidity is often a capital offence.

Again, doesn't make sense. The ships only weak spot should have been protected by hundreds of guns and had a combat air patrol of dozens of fighters. That's the way it should have been built. Tarkin didn't say to not engage the fighters, and he didn't order defenses to stand down. He simply refused to evacuate.

Besides, waiting to fire around the moon is pointless. Why not just fire at the planet, and then destroy the moon? Sure, the original Death Star took hours to recharge, but it was certainly capable of outrunning a planet. Even if it wasn't, the planet would have drited off into space, or more likely into the orbit of another planet where it's ecology would have been ruined, forcing an evacuation where the Imperials could have just picked the rebels off one by one. That's if debris raining down from the exploding planet didn't wipe the moon of all life in the first place.

[Sionnach Glic]

We see many Stormtroopers die after being hit by rocks or tripped using vines. These are fit men with body armour and the whole shabang. They should have suffered a grand total of zero casualties.

Armour dosen't stop KE. Put it this way. A man is wearing a bullet proof vest. Another man walks up and shoots him with a pistol. The bullet won't penetrate, but he sure as hell will feel it hitting him!
The same goes for stormtroopers. No matter how advanced your armour you will get hurt if someone throws a rock the size of your head at you!

The AT-ST shouldn't have even been captured.

Remember that one of the crewmen opened the top hatch to try and get one of the ewoks of the vehicle. He just didn't realise chewbacca was up there!

[I Am Spartacus]

Armour dosen't stop KE. Put it this way. A man is wearing a bullet proof vest. Another man walks up and shoots him with a pistol. The bullet won't penetrate, but he sure as hell will feel it hitting him!
The same goes for stormtroopers. No matter how advanced your armour you will get hurt if someone throws a rock the size of your head at you!

But it's a rock, and not a large one at that. Is a tiny little creature really capable of throwing a small rock with enough kinetic energy to kill someone? They don't possess the strength to hurl a large enough rock with enough force to kill squat. Armour does soften the blow, by absorbing a lot of the kinetic energy.

[Captain Seafort]

We see many Stormtroopers die after being hit by rocks or tripped using vines. These are fit men with body armour and the whole shabang. They should have suffered a grand total of zero casualties.

So what if they've got body armour - if you get hit on the head by a lump of rock a foot across, you're going to be knocked unconcious, armour or no armour. As for the vines - if you take on enemy that's fighting on ground he know's well and has prepared for the type of combat you WILL suffer casualties.

The AT-ST shouldn't have even been captured. I don't see how a couple of 2 feet tall teddy bears could have captured an armoured vehicle from a pair of well trained and experienced soldiers, even with Chewbacca.

True - the stormie acted like an idiot opening the hatch to go after the Ewok. Once the hatch was open he could be hauled out easilly, the Ewoks got inside, and with Chewie at the controls that one vehicle turned the tide of the battle.

[Sionnach Glic]

Look at chimps. They're smaller than us but they are still much stronger than us. Physically the average human is very weak. And the ewoks were picking up rocks the size of heads and throwing them like they were styrofoam!( )
And yes, armour does soften the blow. But you will feel something like that hiting you.

[I Am Spartacus]

So what if they've got body armour - if you get hit on the head by a lump of rock a foot across, you're going to be knocked unconcious, armour or no armour. As for the vines - if you take on enemy that's fighting on ground he know's well and has prepared for the type of combat you WILL suffer casualties.

This still makes no sense.

The imperials had been building the Death Star for years. You're telling me that after years of protecting the place, they didn't know the ground well? By a bunch of stuffed animals throwing rocks, when you have guns, aircraft, and armoured vehicles? According to the Emperior, these were the best soldiers in the galaxy. You seriously believe they would have lost to Ewoks throwing rocks?

True - the stormie acted like an idiot opening the hatch to go after the Ewok. Once the hatch was open he could be hauled out easilly, the Ewoks got inside, and with Chewie at the controls that one vehicle turned the tide of the battle.

Against 8,000 men? No. One vehicle, not a well armoured one at that, would not turn the tide of battle. It simply would not happen.

Look at chimps. They're smaller than us but they are still much stronger than us. Physically the average human is very weak. And the ewoks were picking up rocks the size of heads and throwing them like they were styrofoam!( )
And yes, armour does soften the blow. But you will feel something like that hiting you.

Uh, chimps are not stronger than humans. Proportionately to their body size, maybe, but not overall.

You seriously believe that a modern army division can be beaten by throwing rocks at them?

[Captain Seafort]

The imperials had been building the Death Star for years. You're telling me that after years of protecting the place, they didn't know the ground well? By a bunch of stuffed animals throwing rocks, when you have guns, aircraft, and armoured vehicles? According to the Emperior, these were the best soldiers in the galaxy. You seriously believe they would have lost to Ewoks throwing rocks?

The 2nd Death Star was approximately six months into its construction at the time of the battle (begun during Shadows of the Empire). The Imps were in the process of scouting the surrounding area (the patrol the Rebel force bumbed into). The effectiveness of Imperial equipment would have been seriously reduced by the forest they were fighting in and the Ewoks natural camoflage (BTW they didn't have air support). Palpatine's claim of "an entire Legion of by best troops" must be suspect given that they fought in a forest with white armour - no attempt at camoflage (by contrast the clonetroopers fighting on Kashyyyk in RotS did use camoflage.) Despite all these disadantages they were winning until Chewie nicked the AT-ST.

Against 8,000 men? No. One vehicle, not a well armoured one at that, would not turn the tide of battle. It simply would not happen.

Your source for these numbers please? We never saw more than a couple of dozen stormies at once, partially because they scattered through the forest after the Ewoks, partially because the majority of them were at the front door believing the battle to be a diversion.

You seriously believe that a modern army division can be beaten by throwing rocks at them?

I believe that if a foot-wide rock is thrown (not dropped but thrown) at a man's head, it doesn't matter whether he's wearing a helmet or not, it will ruin his whole day.

[Sionnach Glic]

The imperials had been building the Death Star for years.

Six months actually.

You're telling me that after years of protecting the place, they didn't know the ground well?

Why would they need to know the terrain? They weren't expecting a major attack and all they needed to do was guard the bunker.

By a bunch of stuffed animals throwing rocks, when you have guns, aircraft, and armoured vehicles?

Ask anyone with military experience and they'll say that forrests and jungles are some of the worst places for a shootout.
The aircraft were to busy engaging the rebels and the AT-STs were the equivalent of a humvee.

You seriously believe they would have lost to Ewoks throwing rocks?

And a few squads of elite rebel commandoes.
Also they were actually winning the battle until one of the vehicles was captured.

Against 8,000 men? No. One vehicle, not a well armoured one at that, would not turn the tide of battle. It simply would not happen.

I wasn't 8000 men. The main force was guarding the front entrance of the bunker.

As for the 'best troops' it seems like this could be a legion thats 'best' in political terms. The last thing the emporer wanted was for his troops to turn traitor at that point! This would explain the hideous tactics.