YOU must win the Dominion War

[Mikey]

When the KE attacks the UFP.

Why would the KE attack the UFP, when they're being attacked by the CU/Dom alliance?

[Deepcrush]

The Feds would never sign a military allaince with the Dominion, at most they would sign a NAP like the RSE did to begin with.

Why not? If you're under attack and someone comes to your aid... you're at war. An Alliance is the way to go.

[Deepcrush]

When the KE attacks the UFP.

Why would the KE attack the UFP, when they're being attacked by the CU/Dom alliance?

WotW remember. The KE would spend around 6 months fighting against the UFP.

[Mikey]

If the CU was allied with the Dom from the start, and therewas no junta, I don't think the UFP would stand in the KE's way.

But yeah - I forgot about that.

[Deepcrush]

They alied with the UFP, and there's century of hatred and warfare between them. They're smart enough to know a good deal when they see one.

Seems like your whole plan would fall apart if only a single piece of that doesn't work the way you want it too. Thats a very big risk. By the time this happens the UFP (Sisko mostly) already has a defensive plan in place. You'd have to get past DS9 to start with and thats IF they don't mine the wormhole and IF they don't have the profits close it off and IF the UFP doesn't get a fleet there and IF the CU, KE and RSE have changed their minds about you being their greatest threat so much so that they'd rather join up with that century long enemy.

[Deepcrush]

If the CU was allied with the Dom from the start, and therewas no junta, I don't think the UFP would stand in the KE's way.

But yeah - I forgot about that.

Fact is that the KE ended up fighting both the CU and UFP at the same time. If the Dominion made itself an enemy of the KE by way of supporting both the CU and UFP openly in war then they are in fact at war. The UFP could try and 3-way the war but what would be the point? The Dominion wants order for safety. The UFP is the best bet as they are the ones who can be the most easily tempered. The KE and RSE will turn on their allies in a heartbeat as we've seen ever so many times. The CU isn't strong enough to do anything without outside help. The key to the AQ/BQ is the UFP. Not in destroying them, but in helping them.

BASIC TIMELINE
KE attacks the CU thinking the founders are in control.
The UFP helps the CU.
The KE attacks the UFP.
Now the KE is fighting both the CU and UFP.

Enter Dominion. "We of the Dominion require order and safety. The Klingon Empire is looking to destroy order and create war. We are here to support the only ones we can trust to maintain order." Thats the UFP just incase anyone missed it.

The UFP has two choices. Take the help of the Dominion to beat the KE back into peace or risk war with someone who just came racing to help you. We know what the CU and RSE will do. CU will join up and the RSE will look for a NAP.

[Mikey]

KE attacks the CU thinking the founders are in control.

That's the part I'm talking about. If the Dom was involved in teh CU from the beginning, then there would have been no junta; and if so, then a decent chance that Gowron wouldn't have launched an offensive agaisnt the CU over UFP protests.

[Deepcrush]

I'm not 100% sure I get where you're trying to go with this. But, the Klingon attack on the CU is just part of the timeline. Factoring that in, the Dominion has a chance to play as one of the "Good Guys" in the conflict. A much better starting position then having a war with both the UFP and KE.

[Mikey]

But we're talking about an alteration to the timeline that DS9 showed. Why would it be OK to discuss certain changes, but not to assume that other changes wouldn't result?

[Sionnach Glic]

Seems like your whole plan would fall apart if only a single piece of that doesn't work the way you want it too.

Not at all. What I posted was just the ideal way that things would go if my plan worked. As they say, all plans fall apart upon contact with the enemy.

By the time this happens the UFP (Sisko mostly) already has a defensive plan in place.

Which is where stepping down the aggression and acting friendly comes in. Be nice to the UFP, let them know it was all just a big misunderstanding, offer them the olive branch, etc. As time passes, seed the UFP (and other powers) with agents. Once they're not expecting it, rush a fleet through the wormhole and storm DS9.

You'd have to get past DS9 to start with and thats IF they don't mine the wormhole

Doesn't the minefield cease to work if 20 mines are destroyed? Not exactly a terrifying obstacle. Simply round up a bunch of old civilian ships and set them on autopilot to fly through the minefield to clear a path for the warships.

IF they don't have the profits close it off

I don't see why the Prophets would get involved until they did in the real timeline.

and IF the UFP doesn't get a fleet there

With the UFP thinking I'm an ally and being misdirected by my own agents impersonating their officers, getting a fleet there's going to be a hell of a task.

and IF the CU, KE and RSE have changed their minds about you being their greatest threat so much so that they'd rather join up with that century long enemy.

Don't see why they would.

[stitch626]

Here's my plan.
1) I would not start hostilities when they did. I would wait.
2) Make a (temporary, but they don't know that) treaty with the RSE and trade for/steal a cloaking device to copy.
3) Equip all ships with cloaks.
4) Over time, send at least half of our fleet into the AQ (most cloaked along with uncloaked "delagate" ships).
5) Replace as many heads of government in all AQ powers as possible, even if every Founder is used.
6) Blitz the place. Take every planet of the Federation possible in one day and destroy their shipyards. Used the replaced Gowron to form an alliance with the KE and send them against the RSE.
7) After both of them have blown each other to bits, take them over.
8) Continue conquest (honestly, in the AQ I can't think of any more threats).


Of course, if I couldn't get the cloaks, this would just take longer. But I would definitely try my best to acquire them.

[Deepcrush]

But we're talking about an alteration to the timeline that DS9 showed. Why would it be OK to discuss certain changes, but not to assume that other changes wouldn't result?

Depends on if you are mixing up what comes before or after. That's when it gets important.

[Deepcrush]

Not at all. What I posted was just the ideal way that things would go if my plan worked. As they say, all plans fall apart upon contact with the enemy.

What is you overall objective? Plans changes, objectives stay the same.

Which is where stepping down the aggression and acting friendly comes in. Be nice to the UFP, let them know it was all just a big misunderstanding, offer them the olive branch, etc. As time passes, seed the UFP (and other powers) with agents. Once they're not expecting it, rush a fleet through the wormhole and storm DS9.

Like you said, this is very ideal and all depends on SF changing its base action and Sisko not closing the wormhole to prevent any Dominion ships from coming through. Is there a backup plan if the UFP doesn't fall for it?

Doesn't the minefield cease to work if 20 mines are destroyed? Not exactly a terrifying obstacle. Simply round up a bunch of old civilian ships and set them on autopilot to fly through the minefield to clear a path for the warships.

Not that I ever heard of. It stops working when all the mines are destroyed as far as I've ever seen. If they only had to destroy 20 mines to knock down the field then the Dominion would have just sent 20 ships through.

I don't see why the Prophets would get involved until they did in the real timeline.

The Profits closed it to protect Sisko. Time doesn't matter to them. So, at anytime if Sisko is at a risk he can't pull out of on his own then they would act. Just like they did in SoA.

With the UFP thinking I'm an ally and being misdirected by my own agents impersonating their officers, getting a fleet there's going to be a hell of a task.

Again, thats if your agents complete their missions before they suffer to much from the S31 virus. Also, you have to convince the UFP that you are an ally. How do you plan too do that? They won't side with you for nothing... you've got to have something to lean them that way.

Don't see why they would.

Then like I said before. You have to find a way to turn the big three against each other. Otherwise the DW will turn out the same way it did in the Prime Verse.

[Sionnach Glic]

What is you overall objective? Plans changes, objectives stay the same.

Overall? The conquest of as much of the AQ as I can manage.

Like you said, this is very ideal and all depends on SF changing its base action and Sisko not closing the wormhole to prevent any Dominion ships from coming through. Is there a backup plan if the UFP doesn't fall for it?

Sisko isn't going to close the wormhole of his own accord, particularly if we're not posing any threat.
If they don't fall for it, rush the wormhole with as large a warfleet I can muster and set up a base of operations in the AQ.

Not that I ever heard of. It stops working when all the mines are destroyed as far as I've ever seen. If they only had to destroy 20 mines to knock down the field then the Dominion would have just sent 20 ships through.

I'm pretty certain there was a weakness of some sort like that. I'll look it up.

The Profits closed it to protect Sisko. Time doesn't matter to them. So, at anytime if Sisko is at a risk he can't pull out of on his own then they would act. Just like they did in SoA.

They didn't act for a long time in DS9. I see no reason why they'd just up and close the wormhole on day 1 this time around.

Again, thats if your agents complete their missions before they suffer to much from the S31 virus. Also, you have to convince the UFP that you are an ally. How do you plan too do that? They won't side with you for nothing... you've got to have something to lean them that way.

Why would my agents start suffering from the virus? S31 is hardly wandering around SF HQ and infecting random admirals with the stuff.
As for convincing the UFP I'm an ally, offer to set up trade rights, etc with them. The UFP is naive enough to fall for it if I appear sincere enough.

Then like I said before. You have to find a way to turn the big three against each other. Otherwise the DW will turn out the same way it did in the Prime Verse.

Turning them against each other shouldn't be hard, particularly with the mutual hatred between the groups.

[Bryan Moore]

Do we really know what the Dominion's idea of "conquest" is? Do they want eradication of the Federation, or simply to enslave them? To get rid of them means planets free of resources, but no one to work for them. Enslavement means people potential workers, but also population control. We see alliances, but we don't know how that would have worked out for Cardassia/Breen had the Dominion won.