Strike Fleet

[Graham Kennedy]

Nacelles are typically a vulnerable point on a GCS. Other ships don't seem to have that vulnerability, as the Reliant demonstrated emphatically in ST2, and the E-E did in Nemesis.

And what makes you think the bugs are similar in this respect?

Hmm. Weird one that. It looks solid enough. The only thing I can think of there is that the angle makes it look more solid than it actually is or the bug got lucky.

Fit the theory to the evidence, not the evidence to the theory.

Hmm. There were definately some misses during the battle. I guess I must have mistaken shots from the runabouts as coming from the Odyssey.

No, there were not "some misses" during the battle. There was one.

[Captain Seafort]

And what makes you think the bugs are similar in this respect?

The fact that, off the top of my head, I can only think of a single ship being lost to nacelle damage alone - the E-D in "Cause and Effect".

Fit the theory to the evidence, not the evidence to the theory.

And part of the evidence is the fact that a GCS is almsot 100 times the size of a Defiant. I have a very hard time believing that the Defiants outgun them. Ton for ton, sure the Defiant's stronger. In absolute terms through? Sorry, that simply makes no sense. Especially given the Galaxy's track record against other ships - their phasers took down Galors in seconds flat in "The Wounded" and "Sacrifice of Angels", while the Defiant needed to resort to QTs to disable a Galor variant in "Defiant".

No, there were not "some misses" during the battle. There was one.

Fair enough.

[Graham Kennedy]

And what makes you think the bugs are similar in this respect?

The fact that, off the top of my head, I can only think of a single ship being lost to nacelle damage alone - the E-D in "Cause and Effect".

How does that speak to the vulnerability or otherwise of the bugs?

And part of the evidence is the fact that a GCS is almsot 100 times the size of a Defiant. I have a very hard time believing that the Defiants outgun them. Ton for ton, sure the Defiant's stronger. In absolute terms through? Sorry, that simply makes no sense. Especially given the Galaxy's track record against other ships - their phasers took down Galors in seconds flat in "The Wounded" and "Sacrifice of Angels", while the Defiant needed to resort to QTs to disable a Galor variant in "Defiant".

So do I, but it certainly seems to be.

[Captain Seafort]

How does that speak to the vulnerability or otherwise of the bugs?

It indicates that the vulnerability of the nacelles is a design flaw of the GCS, rather than an inherent trait of warp nacelles. Therefore any claim of bug nacelles being vulnerable must be based on bugs succumbing to such damage.

So do I, but it certainly seems to be.

Hence trying to reason out the anomalously poor performance of the Odyssey as something other than "the Defiant outguns her", given that that is contradicted by other episodes.

[Mark]

I would keep it a small strike and versitile strike force.

A fleet of eight Defiant class starships, and two Intrepids for scouting. The Intrepids could lead the fleet in point positions, and even though they have no cloak, nothing could catch them. The Defiants, while relatively slow, are small and VERY manuverable at combat speeds, and pack the punch of much larger ships.

[Teaos]

Well since that was the very first time a Federation ship had ever fought the Dominion its not hard to believe that the shields were just really resistant to Federation phasers at that time.

[Graham Kennedy]

How does that speak to the vulnerability or otherwise of the bugs?

It indicates that the vulnerability of the nacelles is a design flaw of the GCS, rather than an inherent trait of warp nacelles. Therefore any claim of bug nacelles being vulnerable must be based on bugs succumbing to such damage.

It may if there are other instances of nacelle damage to draw on. Are there?

In Unnatural Selection the Miranda class Lantree was lost to a single hit on the nacelle pylon. Instant destruction.

We've seen a Type 15 shuttle lost to nacelle damage in In Theory.

We see a Klingon Vor'cha take hits to a nacelle in The Chase, with no shields but a boosted structural integrity field, and it does enough damage to cripple the ship for some hours.

We see a Galor take a plasma stream hit to the nacelle in Caretaker, and it disables the ship.

Offhand I can't think of others, though I will give it more thought.

On the other hand, we see the E-D take a hit to the nacelle unshielded in Generations and it does no visible damage.

And we see the E-D take repeated hits to the nacelle in Gambit, with no shields but a boosted structural integrity field, and it does no damage.

And we see the E-D take repeated hits to the nacelle in The Chase, with no shields but a boosted structural integrity field, and it does no damage.

The evidence seems to indicate that hits to the nacelle do anything from no damage through to ship destruction, more or less randomly. Not a weakness of the GCS as such, just a good place to aim.

[Deepcrush]

Dude, Seafort, just quit it already... you were wrong, then you cried then you got owned...

As to topic...

1 Sov - Overall good ship.
1 Prommie - Fast ship, good scout, handy in a fight.
2 GCS (Uprated) - Post DW these ships got good plus they have great distance.
1 Defiant - Cloak would be useful, handy in a fight.
5 Nebs (uprated) - A good jack of all trades ship, plus cheaper then the GCS. 3 with weapons pods, 1 sensor pod, 1 supply pod.

[Teaos]

1 Sov - Overall good ship.
1 Prommie - Fast ship, good scout, handy in a fight.

Pick again mate, not allowed those ships.

[Deepcrush]

Oh, right, so I see...

2 GCS (Uprated) - Post DW these ships got good plus they have great distance.

1 Defiant - Cloak would be useful, handy in a fight.

5 Nebs (uprated) - A good jack of all trades ship, plus cheaper then the GCS. 3 with weapons pods, 1 sensor pod, 1 supply pod.

1 Lakota - good ship for baiting any Bugs in the area...

1 Akira - Great reach, sit outside of my enemy's weapons range and pound them to hell and gone.

Is that better?

[Teaos]

As much as I do like the Lakota I can't help but think that the weapons podd Nebula or Akira would do that job just as well.

The Lakota has style and is great for its age but the newer ships do the same job but better.

[Deepcrush]

I want the Lakota as bait. To draw off near by defenses, if any, away from the my target. The "Oh look its just an Excelsior" mindset. Then to turn it into "OH SH*T!" when a wave of QT's knock out the first pair of bugs or even a Battle Cruiser. Makes a nice suprise and a good way to get noticed.