How THE FEDERATION Changed - Lore Evolution

[Nutso]

[McAvoy]

I think this more of a popular fan theory than anything else. To me I can think of at least four examples of war pre-TNG.

Sheliak, Cardassians, that war with that race in that TNG episode where the race took in a human orphan, the race that the Founders tried to restart a war with using the hijacked Defiant.

Also considering the Yesterday's Enterprise Klingons in the 2340's were willing to go to war with the Federation as opposed to the freaking Romulans who actually attacked them...

My running theory was TNG Era got extra smug due to them being able to fight off multiple small scale wars with no issue using non-warship designs. Wasnt until they encountered the Borg and Dominion who matched or exceeded their best. Q basically bringing them out of complacency.

[Graham Kennedy]

It's quite fascinating how the image of the Federation changed in TNG. Up to them the Federation was more like the UN, with members being largely independent of one another. See The Cloud Minders, where Kirk is specifically told to keep his nose out of local politics because he has no legal right to interfere (and of course he ignores that). The novels run with that idea, and in them there is talk of Federation worlds that are pretty much horror stories - one novel has Rand coming from such a world, where she was a slave in all but name. Such things would be scandalous, but the planets are remote enough literally and politically that things just fall through the cracks. Of course elements of that would make it to TNG with Yar's home planet being some kind of failed world, though at least in that case the Federation didn't seem to regard it as a member.

The books also show that there is actually some bigotry around, and play up the idea that Vulcan is very much in two minds about whether to even be in the Federation because they look down on other races a lot, especially Humans. Which is where the idea of Spock as the first Vulcan in Starfleet comes from - no Vulcan would participate because Starfleet had a reputation as being too prone to violence.

In fact the "Vulcanian Expedition" mentioned by Kirk in Court Martial was an event where Starfleet sent four Starships into Vulcan orbit, ostensibly as a goodwill showing the flag kind of exercise and to encourage greater Vulcan participation in Starfleet. To many Vulcans, and to many Humans even, it seemed more like a display of force meant to intimidate rather than encourage, and the whole thing was later seen as a little shameful. Nevertheless the Vulcans complied, and so we got an all-Vulcan Starship, the Intrepid.

By TNG the Federation was more like the EU, if not the USA. Hell, by DS9 Starfleet officers have power of arrest, and often seem to pretty much be an integral part of the political process, not servants to it.

I always thought it was a shame that the TV shows never much went into the TOS-style politics a bit more. There's ground for interesting stories there. But I guess Gene wanted his utopia, so that was that.

[bladela]

It's quite fascinating how the image of the Federation changed in TNG. Up to them the Federation was more like the UN, with members being largely independent of one another. See The Cloud Minders, where Kirk is specifically told to keep his nose out of local politics because he has no legal right to interfere (and of course he ignores that). The novels run with that idea, and in them there is talk of Federation worlds that are pretty much horror stories - one novel has Rand coming from such a world, where she was a slave in all but name. Such things would be scandalous, but the planets are remote enough literally and politically that things just fall through the cracks. Of course elements of that would make it to TNG with Yar's home planet being some kind of failed world, though at least in that case the Federation didn't seem to regard it as a member.

The books also show that there is actually some bigotry around, and play up the idea that Vulcan is very much in two minds about whether to even be in the Federation because they look down on other races a lot, especially Humans. Which is where the idea of Spock as the first Vulcan in Starfleet comes from - no Vulcan would participate because Starfleet had a reputation as being too prone to violence.

In fact the "Vulcanian Expedition" mentioned by Kirk in Court Martial was an event where Starfleet sent four Starships into Vulcan orbit, ostensibly as a goodwill showing the flag kind of exercise and to encourage greater Vulcan participation in Starfleet. To many Vulcans, and to many Humans even, it seemed more like a display of force meant to intimidate rather than encourage, and the whole thing was later seen as a little shameful. Nevertheless the Vulcans complied, and so we got an all-Vulcan Starship, the Intrepid.

By TNG the Federation was more like the EU, if not the USA. Hell, by DS9 Starfleet officers have power of arrest, and often seem to pretty much be an integral part of the political process, not servants to it.

I always thought it was a shame that the TV shows never much went into the TOS-style politics a bit more. There's ground for interesting stories there. But I guess Gene wanted his utopia, so that was that.

Could it be a sort of gradual integration process as the new member was more easily accessible and interconnected to the system?


Something also linked to the progressive improvement of warp tech technology and expansionof the Federation itself.

Then I sometimes wonder how realistic and viable is such a large federation with TNG's warp technology? 8000 light years at realistic speed would mean taking years to go from one extreme to the other. No real empire, not even the British empire, at its maximum extent, I believe has ever had such a possible delay to go from one point to another of its territory.


I wonder, for example, how a representative elected on the council of the federation of a planet 1000 light-years from Earth preside in his place? Holographic technology? even subspace messages would be delayed by days at this distance (yeah...i know...star trek was never consistent in this).

[Graham Kennedy]

Yes, Federation history perhaps parallels the EU. Starting as a rather loose association with a great deal of autonomy for members, but the goal of an ever closer union.

As for the size/speed issue, I tend to just ignore it. In reality it's a bit ridiculous to have a society where it takes nearly a decade to go from one side to the other.

[bladela]

Yes, Federation history perhaps parallels the EU. Starting as a rather loose association with a great deal of autonomy for members, but the goal of an ever closer union.

As for the size/speed issue, I tend to just ignore it. In reality it's a bit ridiculous to have a society where it takes nearly a decade to go from one side to the other.

with TNG's warp tech no alpha/beta quadrant power should be larger than a few hundreds to a thousand light year at best, to be realistic, if it has to remain a single state, in my opinion

[McAvoy]

Enterprise kinda plays in with that. By Season 4 they were starting to form a loose group alliance with each government still a separate entity with their own ships. You could argue even by the start of the 23rd century, Starfleet is still a entire human ran fleet with Andorians, Vulcan etc contributing to the fleet but yet separate to do their own thing.

Perhaps by TNG the Federation became very much unified (though the TOS movies) show this mostly happening anyway). Where the human designs are the official design lineage for Starfleet and the members will have their own fleets but mainly rely on Starfleet to protect them or the typical Federation missions.

I like the idea it took the Federation alot longer to fully integrate with its members as a unified whole.