The appeal of the old over the new.

The Original Series

Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Mikey » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:27 pm

Deepcrush wrote:I saw it more as he was the only no civilian on the ship, there for the only one not breed to mess things up. Never figured it as his nationality had anything to do with it.


I don't think that even Seafort really thinks that, he just can't resist an opportunity to throw a pro-limey barb.

And yes, he certainly showed a degree of competence that nobody else did;* his personality just annoyed me.

* - save perhaps Mayweather, who seemed to be a competent helmsman. He was just ignored because, you know... he wasn't white.
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Captain Seafort » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:41 pm

Mikey wrote:I don't think that even Seafort really thinks that, he just can't resist an opportunity to throw a pro-limey barb.


True, as I'm pretty sure this --> :P clued you into, but you have to admit that for those characters who weren't glorified extras, there's 100% correlation between competence and being a Brit.
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Mikey » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:07 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
Mikey wrote:I don't think that even Seafort really thinks that, he just can't resist an opportunity to throw a pro-limey barb.


True, as I'm pretty sure this --> :P clued you into, but you have to admit that for those characters who weren't glorified extras, there's 100% correlation between competence and being a Brit.


Careful... there's also a 100% correlation between being a whiny git and being a Brit. :P
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:55 pm

TOS didn't shy away from putting minorities in positions of authority, either.
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Captain Seafort » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:59 pm

Mikey wrote:Careful... there's also a 100% correlation between being a whiny git and being a Brit. :P


Not entirely - Hoshi and George W's idiot brother are at least as bad.
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Mikey » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:00 am

Captain Seafort wrote:
Mikey wrote:Careful... there's also a 100% correlation between being a whiny git and being a Brit. :P


Not entirely - Hoshi and George W's idiot brother are at least as bad.


When was Jeb Bush on ENT? ;)
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Reliant121 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:04 pm

Mikey wrote:
Captain Seafort wrote:
Mikey wrote:I don't think that even Seafort really thinks that, he just can't resist an opportunity to throw a pro-limey barb.


True, as I'm pretty sure this --> :P clued you into, but you have to admit that for those characters who weren't glorified extras, there's 100% correlation between competence and being a Brit.


Careful... there's also a 100% correlation between being a whiny git and being a Brit. :P


What do you expect when you had a vast empire and its now disappeared, no thanks to you colonials :wink:
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Tyyr » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:10 pm

It had balls. TOS wasn't afraid to try something different. They weren't afraid of putting characters in uncomfortable situations or even having them be wrong sometimes. Sure, there was a lot of camp but even though Kirk fought a guy in a godzilla suit by making a homemade cannon and firing diamonds out of it what happened at the end? Instead of the hero vanquishing the monster he stopped, told the aliens who had put them in this situation to fuck off, and spared the gorn who would have happily killed him just moments earlier. Yeah, we got Spock's brain but we also got The Corbomite Manuver. Also the characters, they've tried to recapture the dynamic several times but there is no matching the Kirk/Spock/Bones dynamic.

There are probably, twenty to thirty episodes to TOS that to this day I will not turn off, heck sometimes I turn them on as background noise when I'm doing other things on my computer. Episodes that aren't good TOS episodes or good Trek episodes or even good SciFi. They're just damn good flat out story telling.

This isn't to say that the other series haven't had their moments or their great stories but I don't think that even DS9 managed to completely meet the bar TOS set.

save perhaps Mayweather, who seemed to be a competent helmsman. He was just ignored because, you know... he wasn't white.

Ensign who?
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:30 pm

I've been watching a few TOS episodes recently, and the thing I notice the most is that TOS had passion. Bones got angry over the situations they faced, and Kirk would agonise over the tough decisions he had to take. People make fun of Shatner and how he played Kirk, but you watch that character in action and he comes across as a man who is 100% committed and invested in every single action he took, every single thing he said and did. How many people in TNG or Voyager or Enterprise come across that way? Not many.
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:25 pm

Even Spock got that way on occasion. :) It's a good point, too. They felt more... human, for lack of a better word.
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Vic » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:25 pm

Spock showed compassion a number of times, you get the idea that Spock is a genuinely good person who does care.
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Sonic Glitch » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:31 am

:evil:
Vic wrote:Spock showed compassion a number of times, you get the idea that Spock is a genuinely good person who does care.

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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:35 am

With Spock, you had the idea that underneath the Vulcan control he was basically a decent person. When he lost control of his emotions he would fall in love, or get upset and cry, or regret his relationship with his father, etc.

The contrast with Tuvok always struck me. Tuvok, under his emotional control... was an asshole. Seriously, he was rude, arrogant, inflexible, and just basically a giant dick to everyone around him. And when he lost control it was always horror and death and violence. I guess there's no reason why every Vulcan should be nice, like Spock was. But then, in Enterprise pretty much every Vulcan was a Tuvok-style Vulcan. :(
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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:23 am

Spock loses his inhibitions... and he looks at clouds. Or he expresses profound relief and JOY that he didn't kill Jim in 'Amok Time'. That big smile on his face gets me every time.

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Re: The appeal of the old over the new.

Postby Captain Seafort » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:30 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:The contrast with Tuvok always struck me. Tuvok, under his emotional control... was an asshole. Seriously, he was rude, arrogant, inflexible, and just basically a giant dick to everyone around him. And when he lost control it was always horror and death and violence.


He was facing the prospect of a lifetime stuck on the same ship as Neelix.
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