Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

In the real world
User avatar
Deepcrush
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 18917
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:15 pm
Location: Arnold, Maryland, USA

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by Deepcrush »

Gun control, just like gay marrage is largely a "bias" issue. I've been told both here on the forum from our European members and elsewhere in person by a lot of people that if we ban all guns then violence will stop. But those are the persons normally not affected by firearms. Since everyone likes drinking, no one is going to call for a ban on it again. The issue with banning firearms is that they would traffic the same way the booz did back during Prohibition. People who live in places that need or even just really want them, would still get them. If you can sneak assault weapons and explosives through a country as far out of the way as England. Then the US is just in a hopeless spot for it.
Jinsei wa cho no yume, shi no tsubasa no bitodesu
stitch626
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
Posts: 9585
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:57 pm
Location: NY
Contact:

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by stitch626 »

Containers of people are trafficked in and out (and some just take a waltz across the border)... I think guns would be cake.
No trees were killed in transmission of this message. However, some electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
shran
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1289
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by shran »

Oh, the irony...
The National Rifle Association today held its first press conference since last week's deadly shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, and the takeaway was clear: We need more guns.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," said NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre.

He went on to call for an armed police officer to be stationed in "every single school" across America to prevent further mass shootings, as critics tried to point out that armed law enforcement officials might not be the panacea the NRA thinks it is.

But before they could finish their sentence, the counterargument made itself as news broke of a mass shooting event in Pennsylvania with multiple casualties, including state troopers.
According to local reports out of Blair County, at least four people were killed and five more were injured in a shooting spree near Altoona. The gunman is said to be among the dead, and at least two state troopers were hospitalized with non-life-threatening injuries.

WPXI's Courtney Brennan says she was told by emergency officials that the shooting suspect "was 'mobile' at one point and went up and down a rural road and shot victims."

No additional information is available at this time, but a spokeswoman told the Altoona Mirror it was "a relatively large crime scene."

Meanwhile, back at the NRA press conference, LaPierre was blaming anything and everything for the Sandy Hook massacre except guns.

UPDATE: The shooter has been identified as 26-year-old Jeffrey Lee Michael of Hollidaysburg, PA.

According to the Altoona Mirror, for reasons yet unknown, Michael shot and killed 58-year-old Kimberly A. Scott of Duncansville while she was hanging Christmas decorations at the Juniata Valley Gospel Church.

He then left the scene and went to a nearby residence where he shot and killed another person. Michael then got in his pickup truck and drove off, eventually crashing into another vehicle. He exited his truck and shot the driver of the second car, killing him.

Following a separate head-on collision with a state trooper who was injured in the crash, Michael began shooting at responding troopers and was subsequently shot and killed. In the exchange, one trooper was wounded after being struck by a bullet in his wrist, and another trooper sustained injuries from broken glass.

A motive for the shooting spree has yet to be revealed.
http://gawker.com/5970497/while-the-nra ... socialflow

Another thing that hasn't been brought up here yet is the Werther effect. Although it strictly handles suicide, the coverage by the media make it seem more 'normal' to do the same thing, thus causing emulation, perhaps letting others who would not have committed such a massacre tip over and be enticed to actually commit it, rather than refraining from it at the last moment, or perhaps an earlier stage.
User avatar
Deepcrush
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 18917
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:15 pm
Location: Arnold, Maryland, USA

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by Deepcrush »

Sorry but what is your supposed irony from this post?
Jinsei wa cho no yume, shi no tsubasa no bitodesu
Sonic Glitch
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6026
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:11 am
Location: Any ol' place here on Earth or in space. You pick the century and I'll pick the spot

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by Sonic Glitch »

I'm guessing it's the fact that another shooting occurred while the NRA was telling us more guns would make us safer.
"All this has happened before --"
"But it doesn't have to happen again. Not if we make up our minds to change. Take a different path. Right here, right now."
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11561
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by Graham Kennedy »

SteveK wrote:The consensus among Americans, as voiced by our democratically established laws is that the risk of guns is light compared to the benefits, real or imagined, of owning them. We could be wrong, but owning guns has long been part of the American tradition so we've been reluctant to change.
Indeed. As I said earlier, if you believe that the occasional school massacre is a price worth paying for the right to have guns, then that's certainly a valid conclusion to come to.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
shran
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1289
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by shran »

Sonic Glitch wrote:I'm guessing it's the fact that another shooting occurred while the NRA was telling us more guns would make us safer.
That's what I was aiming at, although my grasp of the concept of irony probably needs work too.
User avatar
Angharrad
Captain
Captain
Posts: 1972
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 2:24 am
Location: In the big chair, finally, swinging my feet 'cause I'm short. Lower the chair Scotty DAMMIT
Contact:

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by Angharrad »

Meanwhile, back in NY
4 Firefighters Shot, 2 Killed At Webster, New York Fire Scene; Shooter Dead

WEBSTER, N.Y. -- Authorities say four firefighters were shot, two of them killed while responding to a house fire in western New York.

Officials in the town of Webster tell local media outlets that someone shot at firefighters around 6 a.m. Monday when they arrived at the scene of the blaze just east of Rochester.

The shooter has been identified as William Spengler, 62, a convicted killer.

The dead are Lt. Mike Chiapperini, 43, a volunteer firefighter and Webster Police Department’s public information officer, and firefighter Tomasz Kaczowka. Theodore Scardino and Joseph Hofstetter were also shot and are recovering in guarded condition at Strong Memorial Hospital.

Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering told reporters that Spengler was found dead outside the home where the shootings occurred, killed by a self-inflicted gunshot. Pickering said Spengler opened fire at the firefighters when they pulled up to a house in the 100 block of Lake Road. One firefighter was able to flee the scene, while the other three were "pinned down at the location." A SWAT team responded, rescued the firefighter who was alive and then engaged the suspect.

Pickering spoke through tears as he described the violent scene, which appeared to be set up on purpose.

"It does appear that [the fire scene] was a trap that was set," Pickering said in a press conference.
Police secured the area by 10 a.m. and firefighters started combating the blaze, which spread to four houses, according to the Democrat and Chronicle. Four houses were completely destroyed and four others were damaged, but the fire is under control, Pickering said.

An off-duty Greece police officer driving nearby the was also injured by shrapnel. He was taken to the hospital.

SWAT teams reportedly been evacuated 33 nearby residents and took them by armored vehicle out of the neighborhood.

A call between an injured fireman and a dispatcher made this morning was released. It can be heard here.
Huffington Post
“You cannot play God then wash your hands of the things that you've created. Sooner or later, the day comes when you can't hide from the things that you've done anymore.”

And then Buffy staked Edward. The End.


From Slave to Princess
User avatar
Deepcrush
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 18917
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:15 pm
Location: Arnold, Maryland, USA

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by Deepcrush »

Sonic Glitch wrote:I'm guessing it's the fact that another shooting occurred while the NRA was telling us more guns would make us safer.
Not much of an irony, one shooting against defenseless civilians kills 27. The other, against armed persons kills two. Makes the NRA's point pretty strong when you increase the chances of survival by nearly 14x.
Jinsei wa cho no yume, shi no tsubasa no bitodesu
stitch626
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
Posts: 9585
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:57 pm
Location: NY
Contact:

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by stitch626 »

Deepcrush wrote:
Sonic Glitch wrote:I'm guessing it's the fact that another shooting occurred while the NRA was telling us more guns would make us safer.
Not much of an irony, one shooting against defenseless civilians kills 27. The other, against armed persons kills two. Makes the NRA's point pretty strong when you increase the chances of survival by nearly 14x.
The reason only two were killed was because he was going around to different areas. If it had been a mall or something, it would have likely been worse.

Howevever, even if it was clear evidence of guns=protection, its still useless because they were trained cops, as opposed to untrained average joe.
No trees were killed in transmission of this message. However, some electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
Tsukiyumi
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 21747
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!
Contact:

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by Tsukiyumi »

stitch626 wrote:...they were trained cops, as opposed to untrained average joe.
I have it on solid authority that, down here at least, average joe is likely to be considerably better trained than a cop. Cops have to qualify once a year, IIRC (it might be even less), and they just don't train. Detectives, yes; beat cops, no. The exact words used were, "There are kids that come up to shoot that are better than the majority of cops."
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
stitch626
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
Posts: 9585
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:57 pm
Location: NY
Contact:

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by stitch626 »

Tsukiyumi wrote:
stitch626 wrote:...they were trained cops, as opposed to untrained average joe.
I have it on solid authority that, down here at least, average joe is likely to be considerably better trained than a cop. Cops have to qualify once a year, IIRC (it might be even less), and they just don't train. Detectives, yes; beat cops, no. The exact words used were, "There are kids that come up to shoot that are better than the majority of cops."
Eek... I won't be going to Texas anytime soon.

Up here unless they get a certain number of hours of firearms training per year (varies on which branch: city, town, state) they get desked. A lot are not only trained with pistols but also riot gear in areas that can't afford their own division.
No trees were killed in transmission of this message. However, some electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
Tsukiyumi
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 21747
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!
Contact:

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Oh, they get a certain number of hours of training and practice; it's just that they still suck afterward compared to people who actually have skill or train frequently.

Not really a Texas thing either; I think my friend is from the northeast originally.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
User avatar
Deepcrush
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 18917
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:15 pm
Location: Arnold, Maryland, USA

Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Post by Deepcrush »

It isNt just a matter of trained or not responder was in force. But that a person or persons armed kept the cost of live low where the "gun free zone" sign that so many praise failed.
Jinsei wa cho no yume, shi no tsubasa no bitodesu
Post Reply