US Presidents Debate.
- Teaos
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US Presidents Debate.
Anyone here watch the debate?
Everyone was calling it a win for Romny which it certinly seemed that way. But looking at it today, I think Obama was purposfully meak and held back so Biden and his other peeps could call Romney out on his BS. I see a lot of TV adds being made out of Romneys sound bites and the Dems calling BS on them.
Everyone was calling it a win for Romny which it certinly seemed that way. But looking at it today, I think Obama was purposfully meak and held back so Biden and his other peeps could call Romney out on his BS. I see a lot of TV adds being made out of Romneys sound bites and the Dems calling BS on them.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
From what I've heard, Obama never really does the whole "attack the opponent" thing. In the debates last election he never attacked McCain as such, he just tried to look like he was above the negativity and insults and able to talk about the issues in a smart, informed way. Whether that's because he's just not very good at the whole attacking thing or because he wants to take a step back from the fray and try and appear like the reasonable one, it seems to work for him.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
That's generally seemed to be Obama's tactic - and usually he's more of an orator than a debater. Let's look at some key points from both sides:
Obama claims to have "proposed" a $4 trillion deficit-reduction program. Truth is, half of that is from legislation that's already been done. Under his administration, sure, but it certainly can't be called part of a new proposal.
Romney went back to the old Sarah Palin attack on single-payer "death panels," though he did stop short of using that term while still claiming that an advisory board would dole out restrictions on health care. #1 - it's not true, as Obama's law specifically prohibits such a board from rationing care; #2 - it's still better than the private carriers rationing care to fit their P&L statements.
Romney stated that there are currently 23 million Americans out of work. The actual number is 12.5 million. He also stated that under Obama, half of new college graduates can't find work - the truth is that the number is about one-quarter.
Obama said that we can now use for internal matters some of the money we're "saving" by winding up a couple of wars. In truth, those wars were paid for by already-extant defense budgets, and by borrowed money - ending them isn't going to free up a dime in the budget.
Obama claims to have "proposed" a $4 trillion deficit-reduction program. Truth is, half of that is from legislation that's already been done. Under his administration, sure, but it certainly can't be called part of a new proposal.
Romney went back to the old Sarah Palin attack on single-payer "death panels," though he did stop short of using that term while still claiming that an advisory board would dole out restrictions on health care. #1 - it's not true, as Obama's law specifically prohibits such a board from rationing care; #2 - it's still better than the private carriers rationing care to fit their P&L statements.
Romney stated that there are currently 23 million Americans out of work. The actual number is 12.5 million. He also stated that under Obama, half of new college graduates can't find work - the truth is that the number is about one-quarter.
Obama said that we can now use for internal matters some of the money we're "saving" by winding up a couple of wars. In truth, those wars were paid for by already-extant defense budgets, and by borrowed money - ending them isn't going to free up a dime in the budget.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Re: US Presidents Debate.
I din't really care to see which guy was going to lie better... so I didn't watch.
Ugh... do not thump the Book of G'Quan...
- Captain Seafort
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
Depends on your definition. I suspect Romney's right about the numbers out of work, while you're talking about the numbers of unemployed.Mikey wrote:Romney stated that there are currently 23 million Americans out of work. The actual number is 12.5 million.
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
I understand the distinction, but even if we were to ignore the semantic trickery it still doesn't add up to make Romney's numbers accurate. The fine point you mention - i.e., out of work and no longer looking for work - only accounts for 2.6 million. He also included 8 million folks who ARE working, but just want better jobs (preceding numbers from AP.) If you include all three groups then you DO get 23.1 million; but all three groups can't really be included in that statement.Captain Seafort wrote:Depends on your definition. I suspect Romney's right about the numbers out of work, while you're talking about the numbers of unemployed.Mikey wrote:Romney stated that there are currently 23 million Americans out of work. The actual number is 12.5 million.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
- Captain Seafort
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
Define "better". Simply "better paid" or "I'm only working 12 hours a week and I want a full-time job"?Mikey wrote:He also included 8 million folks who ARE working, but just want better jobs (preceding numbers from AP.)
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
- Teaos
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
All of the above.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
Indeed. At least partially, and important statistic to be sure; but to include it in a compilation of "unemployment," especially as the statistic is typically used in political conversation, is just as dishonest as the rest of the examples I gave.Teaos wrote:All of the above.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
- Captain Seafort
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
I wouldn't call it dishonest - statistics for the unemployed and underemployed are frequently combined, so he's got plenty of reason to do. Imprecise, certainly, and something to be avoided, but not dishonest. At least no more so than any politician.Mikey wrote:Indeed. At least partially, and important statistic to be sure; but to include it in a compilation of "unemployment," especially as the statistic is typically used in political conversation, is just as dishonest as the rest of the examples I gave.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
"Not more dishonest than any other politician" is like saying "not more Catholic than the pope." It was clear that Romney was intending for people to read "unemployed" as "employable job-seekers who are not working," as it is so commonly used in the colloquy of American politics.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Re: US Presidents Debate.
I still think a homeless guy can do just as good.
So somebody prove me wrong about Mr. Homeless Guy.
So somebody prove me wrong about Mr. Homeless Guy.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
- Praeothmin
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
But you will no longer require borrowing more money, thus adding to the deficit and the debt, if you stop them, thus making you richer in the long run...Mikey wrote:Obama said that we can now use for internal matters some of the money we're "saving" by winding up a couple of wars. In truth, those wars were paid for by already-extant defense budgets, and by borrowed money - ending them isn't going to free up a dime in the budget.
What's the first step in getting out of debt?
Stop spending more than you make by borrowing more money...
I agree that was his message by the way it was stated...It was clear that Romney was intending for people to read "unemployed" as "employable job-seekers who are not working," as it is so commonly used in the colloquy of American politics.
And this is dishonest, IMO, as you are bending the truth to fit your agenda...
Had he been honest, he would have specified that within those 23 million, some already had jobs but wanted better ones, some were not looking for work, and that over half that number were unemployed...
The truth always depends on which side of the fence you're standing... ![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
- Teaos
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
I dont agree, in a debate with limited time your not going to expand and perfectly define each one of your talking points.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
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Re: US Presidents Debate.
True - but in this case, the context determined a commonly-accepted colloquial definition, which Romney knowingly exploited even though it didn't match his commentary.Teaos wrote:I dont agree, in a debate with limited time your not going to expand and perfectly define each one of your talking points.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer