Where are all the other civilizations?
- Teaos
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 15368
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:00 am
- Commendations: The Daystrom Award
- Location: Behind you!
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
I think it is stated several times they have slave worlds. Given how large their territory is I dont see how it is possible for them not to have vassels under them.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
- Deepcrush
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 18917
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:15 pm
- Location: Arnold, Maryland, USA
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
Hence the lack of drive as I stated. Read the statement.Captain Seafort wrote:So? The Federation, to all intents and purposes, is the same, given the massive centralisation around Earth.
I never said anything about their fleet size, read the above statement. I said that it appears to be on the weaker side of the Klingons. Their constant failings against the Dominion and their future and quick defeat at the hands of the Klingons shows that the RSE isn't really as much a powerhouse as they like people to believe. It fits however with their Battleship mentality of trying to scare people with scale but largely being unwilling to commit to mass conflicts.Captain Seafort wrote:Really? When was the size of the Romulan fleet ever specified, or even hinted at?
Number of worlds, related to resources, related to ability of results. Seriously seafort, did you even read a single word of anything you just quoted or are you just trolling again?Captain Seafort wrote:And this is supported by what evidence exactly?
Jinsei wa cho no yume, shi no tsubasa no bitodesu
- Deepcrush
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 18917
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:15 pm
- Location: Arnold, Maryland, USA
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
We know that the Klingons have vassals, we've seen them several times. But the Klingons seem pretty good at pushing their resources.Teaos wrote:I think it is stated several times they have slave worlds. Given how large their territory is I dont see how it is possible for them not to have vassels under them.
Jinsei wa cho no yume, shi no tsubasa no bitodesu
- Captain Seafort
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 15548
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
- Location: Blighty
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
You stated that the Feds have 180 worlds (it's actually 150, but the difference is trivial) while the Klingons have one. I'm pointing out that in terms of heavily industrialised worlds they're equal. The fact that the Klingon Empire was treated as an equal of the Federation during TOS, a period when the Federation was much more heavily militarised than TNG and therefore unlikely to leave any potential advantage untapped, demonstrates that the most likely scenario is that the Klingons have a similar number of lesser industrial bases to the Feds.Deepcrush wrote:Hence the lack of drive as I stated. Read the statement.
Fair enough - I was simply conflating your statements regarding their weakness and having "a few powerful ships", which I interpreted as the small number of the latter being the main cause of the former.I never said anything about their fleet size, read the above statement. I said that it appears to be on the weaker side of the Klingons.
What constant failings? On the contrary, the Romulans' entry into the war was a turning point that was leading rapidly towards the Dominion's defeat, despite their position of great strength prior to their involvement. During TNG the Feds were constantly tripping over themselves to avoid annoying the Romulans, despite numerous NZ violationsTheir constant failings against the Dominion and their future and quick defeat at the hands of the Klingons shows that the RSE isn't really as much a powerhouse as they like people to believe. It fits however with their Battleship mentality of trying to scare people with scale but largely being unwilling to commit to mass conflicts.
Really? So how many worlds does the RSE have, and in which episode was this information revealed?Number of worlds, related to resources, related to ability of results.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
-
- Rear Admiral
- Posts: 6026
- Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:11 am
- Location: Any ol' place here on Earth or in space. You pick the century and I'll pick the spot
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
I'm just going to point out that Picard states in First Contact, "over 150" ... (spread a cross 800 light years).Captain Seafort wrote:You stated that the Feds have 180 worlds (it's actually 150, but the difference is trivial) while the Klingons have one. I'm pointing out that in terms of heavily industrialised worlds they're equal. The fact that the Klingon Empire was treated as an equal of the Federation during TOS, a period when the Federation was much more heavily militarised than TNG and therefore unlikely to leave any potential advantage untapped, demonstrates that the most likely scenario is that the Klingons have a similar number of lesser industrial bases to the Feds.Deepcrush wrote:Hence the lack of drive as I stated. Read the statement.
http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie8.html
And the Klingons were treated as equals, until one of their energy moons exploded and that was apparently enough to cripple them.
"All this has happened before --"
"But it doesn't have to happen again. Not if we make up our minds to change. Take a different path. Right here, right now."
"But it doesn't have to happen again. Not if we make up our minds to change. Take a different path. Right here, right now."
-
- Fleet Admiral
- Posts: 35635
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
- Commendations: The Daystrom Award
- Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
- Contact:
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
Nitpick: I thought the crippling effect from the disaster on Praxis was due to environmental damage to Q'oNos, not to the loss of Praxis itself. Prolly doesn't change the main point, but just sayin'.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
- Captain Seafort
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 15548
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
- Location: Blighty
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
The loss of Praxis in and of itself was a serious blow - Sulu described it as "their key energy production facility".Mikey wrote:Nitpick: I thought the crippling effect from the disaster on Praxis was due to environmental damage to Q'oNos, not to the loss of Praxis itself. Prolly doesn't change the main point, but just sayin'.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
-
- Fleet Admiral
- Posts: 35635
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
- Commendations: The Daystrom Award
- Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
- Contact:
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
True, but I thought the imminent danger to the Empire was the environmental blow to the Klingon homeworld itself. Been a while, I could be wrong.Captain Seafort wrote:The loss of Praxis in and of itself was a serious blow - Sulu described it as "their key energy production facility".Mikey wrote:Nitpick: I thought the crippling effect from the disaster on Praxis was due to environmental damage to Q'oNos, not to the loss of Praxis itself. Prolly doesn't change the main point, but just sayin'.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
- Teaos
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 15368
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:00 am
- Commendations: The Daystrom Award
- Location: Behind you!
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
Probably both. Environmental catastrophe and the main power source going at once. Any one they may have been able to deal with, but both pushed them off the deep in.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
- Granitehewer
- Captain
- Posts: 2237
- Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:03 pm
- Location: Teesside, England
- Contact:
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
I'm sure there is a quote from a Romulan officer about the Romulans successfully repelling every Dominion incursion into their territory (if anyone can find it I promise to always love you), that they simultaneously attacked 15 Dominion bases and that Shinzon alone had at least twelve victories against the Dominion...so I wouldn't say that the Romulans were rather weak.
PTLLS (Tees Achieve), DipHE App Bio (Northumbria), BSc Psychology (Teesside), Comparative Planetology (LJMU), High Energy Astrophysics (LJMU), Mobile Robotics/Physics (Swinburne), Genetics (SAC), Quant Meths (SAC)
https://www.facebook.com/PeterBrayshay
https://www.facebook.com/PeterBrayshay
- Granitehewer
- Captain
- Posts: 2237
- Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:03 pm
- Location: Teesside, England
- Contact:
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
I think it was Senator Letant in Tears of the Prophets
PTLLS (Tees Achieve), DipHE App Bio (Northumbria), BSc Psychology (Teesside), Comparative Planetology (LJMU), High Energy Astrophysics (LJMU), Mobile Robotics/Physics (Swinburne), Genetics (SAC), Quant Meths (SAC)
https://www.facebook.com/PeterBrayshay
https://www.facebook.com/PeterBrayshay
-
- Fleet Admiral
- Posts: 35635
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
- Commendations: The Daystrom Award
- Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
- Contact:
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
That quote may indicate Romulan strength, or it may just indicate Romulan braggadoccio.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
- Captain Seafort
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 15548
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
- Location: Blighty
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
More likely the former, since it's unlikely that Sisko, Ross or Martok would have let them get away with throwing around claims like that with no evidence. It's even more unlikely that all three of them would have done so.Mikey wrote:That quote may indicate Romulan strength, or it may just indicate Romulan braggadoccio.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
-
- Lieutenant Commander
- Posts: 1145
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:34 am
- Location: Georgia, United States
- Contact:
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
Don't know about the Romulans repelling every attack into their territory, but for a race that uses cloaks like crazy, I'd expect their space to be noting but a giant set of ambushes. Cloaked stations beaming cargo into space for a cloaked vessel to pick up, sensors tracking everything, and constant plans for ambushes being refined over the years/decades/centuries.Granitehewer wrote:I'm sure there is a quote from a Romulan officer about the Romulans successfully repelling every Dominion incursion into their territory (if anyone can find it I promise to always love you), that they simultaneously attacked 15 Dominion bases and that Shinzon alone had at least twelve victories against the Dominion...so I wouldn't say that the Romulans were rather weak.
As to the attacks, I'd expect that it was right after the Romulans discovered the secret Dominion plans to attack them, so the attacks were a surprise. Amazingly, there were no Dominion fleets in the area to defend against a Romulan incursion, very sloppy of the Dominion if you ask me
As to Shinzon, memory-alpha has him as a great tactician, but no source cited.
Relativity Calculator
My Nomination for "MVAM Critic Award" (But can it be broken into 3 separate pieces?)
My Nomination for "MVAM Critic Award" (But can it be broken into 3 separate pieces?)
- Granitehewer
- Captain
- Posts: 2237
- Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:03 pm
- Location: Teesside, England
- Contact:
Re: Where are all the other civilizations?
They should cloak their cloaking devices in cloaks then cloak the cloakers and then cloak the becloaked cloakers further!!!!!!!
PTLLS (Tees Achieve), DipHE App Bio (Northumbria), BSc Psychology (Teesside), Comparative Planetology (LJMU), High Energy Astrophysics (LJMU), Mobile Robotics/Physics (Swinburne), Genetics (SAC), Quant Meths (SAC)
https://www.facebook.com/PeterBrayshay
https://www.facebook.com/PeterBrayshay