The life of crewmen?

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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:19 pm

It's the only thing I can think of that fits with all the contradictory IU information regarding O'Brien's career - that he's (currently) an NCO, that he never went to the academy, and yet that he was the Rutledge's tactical officer and was a commissioned officer for most of his time on the Enterprise. It does mean ignoring his comment in Past Tense about "staying an enlisted man" to avoid formal dinners, but that might be explained by him being offered a commissioning course when he was bumped down and declining it.
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:00 pm

McAvoy wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:On a GCS you get 10 minutes per person per week per holodeck.

So for each person to have even one hour a day holodeck time, you would need 42 of them.


Where did you get the 10 minutes per person per week per holodeck from?

Math. There's 10,080 minutes in a week, and 1,014 people on the ship. So 1 holodeck affords 9.94 minutes per person per week.
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Griffin » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:37 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:
McAvoy wrote:Math. There's 10,080 minutes in a week, and 1,014 people on the ship. So 1 holodeck affords 9.94 minutes per person per week.

Math.
Math.
Math.


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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Sonic Glitch » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:50 pm

Griffin wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:
McAvoy wrote:Math. There's 10,080 minutes in a week, and 1,014 people on the ship. So 1 holodeck affords 9.94 minutes per person per week.

Math.
Math.
Math.


Isn't that treason?

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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Tholian_Avenger » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:18 pm

It seems like everyone gets access to a tablet computer, a desktop computer, a stereo system, wall mounted touchscreen tv, a hands free cell phone, and a food replicator. The ship's intranet seems to have access to the Encyclopedia Britannica, Grooveshark, and Netflix.

Video/Computer gaming may never have developed on Trek Earth like it did in reality due to the Orient seeming to have suffered through some really severe societal upheavals amongst the wars and what not.


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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby McAvoy » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:28 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:
McAvoy wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:On a GCS you get 10 minutes per person per week per holodeck.

So for each person to have even one hour a day holodeck time, you would need 42 of them.


Where did you get the 10 minutes per person per week per holodeck from?

Math. There's 10,080 minutes in a week, and 1,014 people on the ship. So 1 holodeck affords 9.94 minutes per person per week.


Ahhh. I see. I thought it was quote off of an episode.
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Atekimogus » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:35 pm

McAvoy wrote:I don't see it as Navy ships where even Master Chiefs (the highest you can go as an enlisted) do not get their own suites but bunk up with other Chiefs. They get far larger bunks than lower enlisted though. Lower officer ranks get similar accomodations as well. I see Starfleet being (obviously) more accomodating to their grunts and lower ranks since typically Starfleet ships operate on their own for years even with occasional docking with bases. Your typical Navy ship doesn't do that. Go out for a few weeks, come back in, go out, go back in, go on deployment for months, and come back.


Well, maybe the assignment of quarters has nothing, or little, to do with the rank you hold but more with your actual need.

For example, Picard - altough Captain of the ship - doesn't really need huge quarters since most of the time he is busy running the ship, in his ready room etc. and basically needs only a place to sleep. Assigning him therefore huge quarters just because he is captain would be a waste of space, even on a ship has huge as a GCS.

On the other hand, a crewman, with a spouse and possible children has greater need of larger quarters and he/she might request them irrespective of rank.

Or a crewman has special enviromental needs, like Benzites or somesuch, requiring a rather special accomodation, again irrespective of rank.


That junior officers need to bunk or have roommates seems more like an educational matter and I would imagine that they soon get their own quarters and while there maybe are certain privileges coming with a higher rank, it would seem incredibly petty for a starfleet officer begruding someone bigger quarters just because of a higher rank, evenmoreso, when the basic living-space is covered for everyone.

(I just cannot imagine Picard, for example, insisting on having the biggest and most luxurous quarters on the ship just because he is the captain, while a family with 8 children is cramped into a smaller one.)
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby McAvoy » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:10 am

Atekimogus wrote:
McAvoy wrote:I don't see it as Navy ships where even Master Chiefs (the highest you can go as an enlisted) do not get their own suites but bunk up with other Chiefs. They get far larger bunks than lower enlisted though. Lower officer ranks get similar accomodations as well. I see Starfleet being (obviously) more accomodating to their grunts and lower ranks since typically Starfleet ships operate on their own for years even with occasional docking with bases. Your typical Navy ship doesn't do that. Go out for a few weeks, come back in, go out, go back in, go on deployment for months, and come back.


Well, maybe the assignment of quarters has nothing, or little, to do with the rank you hold but more with your actual need.

For example, Picard - altough Captain of the ship - doesn't really need huge quarters since most of the time he is busy running the ship, in his ready room etc. and basically needs only a place to sleep. Assigning him therefore huge quarters just because he is captain would be a waste of space, even on a ship has huge as a GCS.

On the other hand, a crewman, with a spouse and possible children has greater need of larger quarters and he/she might request them irrespective of rank.

Or a crewman has special enviromental needs, like Benzites or somesuch, requiring a rather special accomodation, again irrespective of rank.


That junior officers need to bunk or have roommates seems more like an educational matter and I would imagine that they soon get their own quarters and while there maybe are certain privileges coming with a higher rank, it would seem incredibly petty for a starfleet officer begruding someone bigger quarters just because of a higher rank, evenmoreso, when the basic living-space is covered for everyone.

(I just cannot imagine Picard, for example, insisting on having the biggest and most luxurous quarters on the ship just because he is the captain, while a family with 8 children is cramped into a smaller one.)


Such is the life of a high ranking officer vs. lower ranking ones. Your logic while sound, can also be said about navy ships of today. Admirals and Captains on a ship even as large as a aircraft carrier is bigger than most apartments whereas even a grade below him (Commanders) have to share a room with another.
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Sonic Glitch » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:22 am

McAvoy wrote:
Atekimogus wrote:
McAvoy wrote:I don't see it as Navy ships where even Master Chiefs (the highest you can go as an enlisted) do not get their own suites but bunk up with other Chiefs. They get far larger bunks than lower enlisted though. Lower officer ranks get similar accomodations as well. I see Starfleet being (obviously) more accomodating to their grunts and lower ranks since typically Starfleet ships operate on their own for years even with occasional docking with bases. Your typical Navy ship doesn't do that. Go out for a few weeks, come back in, go out, go back in, go on deployment for months, and come back.


Well, maybe the assignment of quarters has nothing, or little, to do with the rank you hold but more with your actual need.

For example, Picard - altough Captain of the ship - doesn't really need huge quarters since most of the time he is busy running the ship, in his ready room etc. and basically needs only a place to sleep. Assigning him therefore huge quarters just because he is captain would be a waste of space, even on a ship has huge as a GCS.

On the other hand, a crewman, with a spouse and possible children has greater need of larger quarters and he/she might request them irrespective of rank.

Or a crewman has special enviromental needs, like Benzites or somesuch, requiring a rather special accomodation, again irrespective of rank.


That junior officers need to bunk or have roommates seems more like an educational matter and I would imagine that they soon get their own quarters and while there maybe are certain privileges coming with a higher rank, it would seem incredibly petty for a starfleet officer begruding someone bigger quarters just because of a higher rank, evenmoreso, when the basic living-space is covered for everyone.

(I just cannot imagine Picard, for example, insisting on having the biggest and most luxurous quarters on the ship just because he is the captain, while a family with 8 children is cramped into a smaller one.)


Such is the life of a high ranking officer vs. lower ranking ones. Your logic while sound, can also be said about navy ships of today. Admirals and Captains on a ship even as large as a aircraft carrier is bigger than most apartments whereas even a grade below him (Commanders) have to share a room with another.


But, forgive me, most modern military's (to my knowledge) don't have the hippie "we work to better ourselves" mindset of the TNG-era fed. Arguably, in the enlightened humanity of TNG Atekigmogus' logic is sound. (in context)
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby McAvoy » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:15 am

Nope. The military doesn't have that mindset however Picard having sizable quarters (which actually appears to be the same size as anyone else's anyway) isn't that different from real world militaty.
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Atekimogus » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:24 am

McAvoy wrote:Such is the life of a high ranking officer vs. lower ranking ones. Your logic while sound, can also be said about navy ships of today. Admirals and Captains on a ship even as large as a aircraft carrier is bigger than most apartments whereas even a grade below him (Commanders) have to share a room with another.


True, but then they don't got tired telling us that starfleet is NOT a strictly military organization.

Now we have seen all the quarters from all the officers and a few noncoms and it seems they all have exactly the same space available for their basic habitual needs which is irrespective of their rank + they get to use a few rooms needed with their posts. Picard get's his ready room and yacht, Crusher has her medical bay and office etc.etc..those are the perks of rank, however, their private quarters are the same for everyone without special needs (spouse, kids etc.).

Given their morality and mentality I am sure that the assignation of quarters is regulated and has not necessarily something to do with rank. And why should it, if even the least of the quarters available is more or less the size of a big hotel room or a small appartment...what else could you need? If you need more space there is plenty of free community-space, ten forward, holodecks etc.. why waste it on supersize appartments noone "really" needs?
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Captain Seafort » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:32 am

Atekimogus wrote:Now we have seen all the quarters from all the officers and a few noncoms and it seems they all have exactly the same space available for their basic habitual needs which is irrespective of their rank + they get to use a few rooms needed with their posts. Picard get's his ready room and yacht, Crusher has her medical bay and office etc.etc..those are the perks of rank, however, their private quarters are the same for everyone without special needs (spouse, kids etc.).


Not quite the same - the junior officers quarters are a lot smaller (the size of an Admiral's quarters from a century earlier).
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:00 pm

Atekimogus wrote:Given their morality and mentality I am sure that the assignation of quarters is regulated and has not necessarily something to do with rank. And why should it, if even the least of the quarters available is more or less the size of a big hotel room or a small appartment...what else could you need? If you need more space there is plenty of free community-space, ten forward, holodecks etc.. why waste it on supersize appartments noone "really" needs?


It seems pretty obviously rank related to me. We know that Ensigns share quarters, and then get their own when they make Lieutenant. Nor are quarters the same for everyone - we've seen Data's quarters and they are much smaller than those of the higher ranked Picard/Riker/Troi.
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby Atekimogus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:11 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:It seems pretty obviously rank related to me. We know that Ensigns share quarters, and then get their own when they make Lieutenant. Nor are quarters the same for everyone - we've seen Data's quarters and they are much smaller than those of the higher ranked Picard/Riker/Troi.


Well on the other hand, Data would probalby be perfectly happy spending his "free time" standing in a closet. So maybe he is just pragmatic about it. I know Troi made commander sometime, but prior to that did she really outrank Data? I mean he IS second officer of the ship, so my guess is he probably "could" demand bigger quarters.

As for Ensigns - since at least on GCS ships there really is no practical reason why they should share quarters - my guess that this is more a weird military "educational" thing.

However, have we seen Ensigns with spouses, kids or any other thing which would warrant the need for bigger lifing space? If so, my gut feeling is that they would get it, as long there is space available and not being told they can't have the empty appartment because they lack rank.
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Re: The life of crewmen?

Postby McAvoy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:05 pm

Keep in mind that Engisn Kim was a senior officer.

I honesty have no idea how to judge someone who is a Lt. but isn't a senior officer over an ensign.

I think it goes to show that if Data has his own quarters who probably can work 24/7 that the GCS has enough space to allow all but the lowest of the low to have their own quarters.
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