extent of humanity?

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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby McAvoy » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:45 pm

The other possibility is that some humans just don't care for the whole Earth is Paradise thing so they set out on their own for perhaps a challenge. Look at it this way, if you were a billionaire and have everything you want or will ever need, where is the challenge? Money perhaps, but you start doing other stuff like charities, sponsoring research into areas of your own interest etc. The challenge of living is gone, so you find something else to challenge yourself.

Perhaps that is what caused the colonists to move and miners having a standard of living below that of Fed standards.
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby Mikey » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:52 pm

Good point. Normally I'd call that a bunch of hippie idealist BS, but it is in fact one of the primary reasons given for people joining Starfleet... so why wouldn't it be a reason for people with different tendencies to go colonize somewhere?
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby McAvoy » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:56 pm

I agree that not everyone will want to go challenge themselves and in my example many billionaires just don't do jack shit except token donations. So a big question is what is the percentage of Earth's population who are out to do something or those are just deadwood.
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby Mikey » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:00 pm

Tough to say. Right now, for every Dick Cheney there is a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates. Can we draw a parallel, though, to a time when one's ability to contribute has absolutely no correlation with an idea of wealth? Like I said, your point is extra-valid because we know that in the 'Trek universe idealistic notions like self-betterment, need for a personal challenge, etc., are considered valid reasons for doing other things - so why not colonization?
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby McAvoy » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:03 pm

That was my point. I just seriosuly doubt every single human on Earth has that ideal. I always take whatever Picard's Hippy Earth statements with a grain of salt because he always seemed to have chugged down the Federation koolaide.
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby Mikey » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:08 pm

McAvoy wrote:That was my point. I just seriosuly doubt every single human on Earth has that ideal. I always take whatever Picard's Hippy Earth statements with a grain of salt because he always seemed to have chugged down the Federation koolaide.


Of course not. But if 5% or 10% do adopt that philosophy, that's more than enough to fuel Starfleet as well as colonization efforts of anywhere from 100,000 - 1,000,000 apiece.
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby McAvoy » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:41 pm

Exactly. But spread that over 250+ years of humans colonizing space, then I can see some older colonies having very large populations.
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby Mark » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:45 pm

Ah hah, but at what point do these populations take it from colonly status to planet status, with full Federation representation???
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby Sonic Glitch » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:11 pm

Mark wrote:Ah hah, but at what point do these populations take it from colonly status to planet status, with full Federation representation???

Much like how territories were incorporated into the U.S. there's probably some sort of arbitrary population number -- and/or a referendum or voting process of some such.
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby Mikey » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:59 pm

Because we're talking about a comparison with the total population of humankind in the galaxy, I'd think the determining factor wouldn't be population size so much as the colony becoming independently viable. When it can operate without external support from "home" (as opposed to trade agreements) and/or has a measurable GNP, it should be eligible for constituent status.
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby sunnyside » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:32 am

You know I'm not so sure that the "Devil in the Dark" colony was actually part of the federation. I seem to recall stuff about "If the federation wants their minerals" and getting rich.

I think the operation annihilate colony episode had some comment about their being no Federation contact for some long period of time.

The point being those seem like odd things to say since Earth is a part of the Federation.

So I wonder if the idea is that colonies were formed during the pre-federation phase of earths development, which I don't believe was nearly so utopic and so people might have been much more likely to want to fan out.

As for independence, I'm pretty sure a recurring theme across a lot of episodes from TOS and Enterprise at the least was that colonies wouldn't be visited for exceedingly long periods of time. So it would seem they'd have to be functionally independents nearly from the get go. At least in the sense that they could trade for what they needed.
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:29 pm

The Deneva colony had gone quiet a year before.

It does seem that during TOS, the lines of contact and communication were very slow. The Enterprise would often be chasing up something long after it happened - years, even decades.

Happened in TNG on occasion, too. Angel One for instance - they were investigating a freighter which was described as "seven years overdue". I like to hope that if something happens to me it wouldn't take seven years before somebody came to help!
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:46 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:The Deneva colony had gone quiet a year before.

It does seem that during TOS, the lines of contact and communication were very slow. The Enterprise would often be chasing up something long after it happened - years, even decades.

Happened in TNG on occasion, too. Angel One for instance - they were investigating a freighter which was described as "seven years overdue". I like to hope that if something happens to me it wouldn't take seven years before somebody came to help!

Well, especially in TOS, starfleet seemed really stretched to the limit, especially where the Enterprise was operating.
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby Sonic Glitch » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:15 pm

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:The Deneva colony had gone quiet a year before.

It does seem that during TOS, the lines of contact and communication were very slow. The Enterprise would often be chasing up something long after it happened - years, even decades.

Happened in TNG on occasion, too. Angel One for instance - they were investigating a freighter which was described as "seven years overdue". I like to hope that if something happens to me it wouldn't take seven years before somebody came to help!

Well, especially in TOS, starfleet seemed really stretched to the limit, especially where the Enterprise was operating.

Well... It was operating "where no man had gone before" ;)
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Re: extent of humanity?

Postby Captain Seafort » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:25 pm

Sonic Glitch wrote:Well... It was operating "where no man had gone before" ;)


Allegedly. More often it was "where no man had ever come back from before".
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