Mikey wrote:You're still trying to apply logic to unreasoning hate, and it won't work. Iran doesn't hate Israel because of what Israel could do, or has done, or anything like that. Iran hates Israel for being Israel. There's no logic to it, and any protests by Iran over Israeli espionage are merely smokescreens to cover that already-extant hatred.
Mikey wrote:As to underestimating the sheer illogical hatred among all the different sects and cults over there - I believe that if you do so, you have the darkest-tinted sort of rose-colored glasses on.
No need to start resorting to personal attacks on my character just because I don't see things the same as you do. It's one thing not agreeing with me, another to say I'm dangerously naive because my view of events is not as extremist as yours.
What kind of insight you genuinely have into the Iranian's leadership mentality? How do you know this hate actually exists, except in convenient rhetoric? (Convenient for Israelites, warmongers, Saudis and Iranians). Political realities and public declarations are two different things, not always supporting one another, yet existing in contradictory fashions.
So do tell me how you know what the Iranian political leaders really think. It's simply too easy, too convenient to start decrying the other party in a conflict as an absolute monster, the incarnation of everything that you should despise and fear, that there is NO WAY to reason with them. The people who want you to fear and hate them will repeat this again and again. Not because it's true, but because it supports their political agenda. War, hate and fear against Iran fits a lot of people's political agenda.
I prefer to have more reliable means of evaluating motivations based on universal principles. Principles that have proved time and again they always existed, even in the core of political or religious extremists. Catholics have sided with Protestants against the Pope. Communism have sided with America against other Communists. Because self-interest and self-preservation will always guided the path of nations, wherever that nation might have been situation. The most self-destructive behavior nations have adopted in history was done mostly out of an irrational desire to protect one's self and its future. Japan in WW2, Germany in WW1/2 are good examples.
Mikey wrote:Those countries aren't content to let Israel do anything... if you recall your recent (last 6 decades or so) history, you'll remember that they tried to steamroll Israel and subsequently had their asses handed to them. Like I said earlier - two old IDF Centurions vs. Syrian armored brigade... guess who won?
Yes, they are content to let Israel oppress the Palestinians. Initially, they saw Israel as a new power around the block, but a relatively new and isolated one, so the leaders of the 3 arab countries around Israel decided to try to gang up on them, their casu belli was to defend the Palestinian's rights. But the actual reason had more to do with claiming precious territory and putting down a potential alien power than any racial hatred.
Ever since, Israel has proven to be a relatively easy neighbor to have, specially since they know that, as mighty as their armed forces are, they couldn't withstand a 3-front war from Syria, Jordan and Egypt. Israel only won in the preceding conflicts by taking on its neighbors individually and relocating its armed forces onto the next.
At the moment, the Jordanians are more worried about the Palestinian's political power within their border and the influence of a democratic political movement like Fatah, which historically have caused a lot of trouble to their monarchy. Seeing the Palestinian getting their independant state could mean trouble to them on the long-run, so they'd rather see Israel remain strong and keep the Palestinians on a short leash, even if their official diplomatic line says else.
As for the Egyptian regime (previously to the Arab Spring, obviously. Although the military are still in power), they are wary of the Muslim Brotherhood and their offshot political party of the Hamas. Seeing an independent Palestinian state where Hamas would be in power right on their doorstep and possibly supporting the Egyptian MB is a nightmare scenario.
Effectively, Israel has become a convenient boogeyman for the Arab states to use as example of everything that is wrong, but they are quite happy with the way things are with the Jewish State, and with the exception of Syria, they don't support any subversive organisation aimed at hindering it.
So yes, in the past the Arab states tried to gang up on Israel, but recent history proved things changed. Regardless of what things are said, I think deeds speak louder than words, and deeds indicates that the regimes in power in the Middle-East of the past 10 years wants no beef with Israel.
(Although thinks might very well change in Egypt, that's a story to follow!)