How did Janeway ever get a command?

[SolkaTruesilver]

Reliant, I lived with an emotionally and mentally abusive stepfather for eleven years who left my mother and I with emotional scars and a second mortgage, among other things. I... need optimism in my fiction. Without it... no. There are one or two exceptions, but the vast majority of stuff I listen/watch/read needs that hope and at least an earn your happy ending.

don't watch BSG.

Seriously. This is probably one of the most depressing serie I've seen in my life. Probably the best too, but still depressing as hell.

It even drove its own character to suicide!

[Graham Kennedy]

Dreadnought, Graham? Dude... that one sucked, IMHO. Piper was an awful character, and the politics in it were . I use that novel as one of my 'what not to do' when writing fic.

Sorry, man. But gotta disagree there.

Hey, I said it had a godawful Mary Sue character in it.

As a rule, I don't like Diane Carey's writing at all. She's a small boat sailor and avid Coastguard fan, and it heavily influences her writing; unfortunately the effect is that she often makes huge starships feel like they're 30 foot sailboats. But Dreadnought is one of the cases where it didn't come across that way. I love the Dreadnought idea itself, and although the Mary Sue is annoying, it was interesting to see an adventure from a junior officer's eyes. Kind of a Lower Decks feel to it in that respect.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Reliant, I lived with an emotionally and mentally abusive stepfather for eleven years who left my mother and I with emotional scars and a second mortgage, among other things. I... need optimism in my fiction. Without it... no. There are one or two exceptions, but the vast majority of stuff I listen/watch/read needs that hope and at least an earn your happy ending.

don't watch BSG.

Seriously. This is probably one of the most depressing serie I've seen in my life. Probably the best too, but still depressing as hell.

It even drove its own character to suicide!

Already listed it as something I'm avoiding.

Dreadnought, Graham? Dude... that one sucked, IMHO. Piper was an awful character, and the politics in it were . I use that novel as one of my 'what not to do' when writing fic.

Sorry, man. But gotta disagree there.

Hey, I said it had a godawful Mary Sue character in it.

As a rule, I don't like Diane Carey's writing at all. She's a small boat sailor and avid Coastguard fan, and it heavily influences her writing; unfortunately the effect is that she often makes huge starships feel like they're 30 foot sailboats. But Dreadnought is one of the cases where it didn't come across that way. I love the Dreadnought idea itself, and although the Mary Sue is annoying, it was interesting to see an adventure from a junior officer's eyes. Kind of a Lower Decks feel to it in that respect.

Yes, and the titular ship is cool. But apparently it was wrong for the Federation to build a ship to defend itself from attacks...

[Atekimogus]

Could you give me a view pointes to good TOS novels?

Ones I enjoyed :

"My Enemy, My Ally"
"Enterprise : The First Journey"
"Chain of Attack" - in some ways, this is a TOS version of Voyager. Enterprise finds herself thrown millions of light years across space and lands in an area dominated by warlike races. Unlike Janeway, Kirk kick's everyone's ass and gets his people home. It's a great book!
"Spock Must Die!"
"Rules of Engagement"
"Dreadnought" - though it has the biggest Mary Sue character I ever read
"Deep Domain"
"Dreams of the Raven"
"Strangers from the Sky"

Some of them are contradicted by canon - Spock Must Die, especially, has an ending that would have changed all of Trek history. But I don't really care, in and of themselves they are good stuff.

Cool, thank you. Chain of Attack sounds interesting, might give it a try. I did read Dreadnaught, and altough the ship itself is a cool idea the rest reads more like ridiculous fanfiction.

(Oh boy....where to begin, the heroine is of course able to do anything, while plagued by nagging self doubt and constantly fishing for compliments and searching for acknowledgement, is of course super attractive and might even trigger emotional responses from vulcans, she of course safes the day and then goes on a date with Kirk iirc.......aweful, just aweful. If any vulcan finds Neelix annoying he should give this woman a try who just can't accept that vulcans do not express their feelings.)

The female main character is so cliché that I am not quite sure if the book was written by a man trying to go for the "womans perspective" and failing miserably or indeed by a woman. Dreadnaught, I name thee the twilight of startrek.

[Graham Kennedy]

Well, I'm not gonna defend Dreadnought TOO much. But what I liked about it was that although Piper did handle a lot of the plot, Kirk and the Enterprise did their fair share of day saving themselves, too. I figured it was like an episode with a strong gues character... but the POV of the episode stayed with the guest character rather than Kirk. But I can see why it would rub some the wrong way.

Anyway, do check out some of the others. I'd most especially recommend "My Enemy, My Ally" and "Chain of Attack".

[stitch626]

I love Strangers from the Sky. One of my favorites.

[Sonic Glitch]

Dreadnought, Graham? Dude... that one sucked, IMHO. Piper was an awful character, and the politics in it were . I use that novel as one of my 'what not to do' when writing fic.

Sorry, man. But gotta disagree there.

Hey, I said it had a godawful Mary Sue character in it.

As a rule, I don't like Diane Carey's writing at all. She's a small boat sailor and avid Coastguard fan, and it heavily influences her writing; unfortunately the effect is that she often makes huge starships feel like they're 30 foot sailboats. But Dreadnought is one of the cases where it didn't come across that way. I love the Dreadnought idea itself, and although the Mary Sue is annoying, it was interesting to see an adventure from a junior officer's eyes. Kind of a Lower Decks feel to it in that respect.

I don't read much of her works, but I did enjoy "Ship of the Line"

[Reliant121]

I tend to like Diane Carey. No idea why.

Striker: that's understandable. I suppose I've always lived in an incredibly safe, secure and stable family. Insanely so, I've never met a family that's quite as...solid as mine. Hence I would naturally search for something exciting, dark and mysterious. I tend to prefer stories that don't have happy endings because that's all I've ever lived with.

[Atekimogus]

Anyway, do check out some of the others. I'd most especially recommend "My Enemy, My Ally" and "Chain of Attack".

Thank you again, I will!

[Reliant121]

A book I found enjoyable was "Ancient Blood" by Diane Carey.

[Mikey]

I see your point, Striker: fiction is supposed to be escapist to a certain extent. I can appreciate either sort, though, as long as its entertainment value is high; neither dystopian nor utopian milieux impart any sort of value on their own without some meat to back them up.

[Captain Seafort]

I did enjoy "Ship of the Line"

Aka the TOS novel set on the E-E. It's alright so long as you don't take it too seriously.

"Chain of Attack" - in some ways, this is a TOS version of Voyager. Enterprise finds herself thrown millions of light years across space and lands in an area dominated by warlike races. Unlike Janeway, Kirk kick's everyone's ass and gets his people home. It's a great book!

And on top of that he managed to do it without leaving all the locals pissed off at the Federation. Most un-Janeway-like.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I tend to like Diane Carey. No idea why.

Striker: that's understandable. I suppose I've always lived in an incredibly safe, secure and stable family. Insanely so, I've never met a family that's quite as...solid as mine. Hence I would naturally search for something exciting, dark and mysterious. I tend to prefer stories that don't have happy endings because that's all I've ever lived with.

Thanks. I'm legit glad you've got a good family to live with and it's stable. Trust me on this, though-happy endings are rare and precious things.

I see your point, Striker: fiction is supposed to be escapist to a certain extent. I can appreciate either sort, though, as long as its entertainment value is high; neither dystopian nor utopian milieux impart any sort of value on their own without some meat to back them up.

Yeah, I agree about the 'meat'. it's why I like Star Trek and not... My Little Pony, i guess. There are one or two things I like with sad endings, though. But only those. The rest... like I said, I need at least an earn your happy ending.