Leviathan Class

[Mikey]

And, on the topic of England vs France, 592 years ago today, 5000 English and Welsh archers faced something between 24000 and 40000 Frenchmen on the field of Agincourt. The French came second.

I give the English a great deal of credit for their victory at Agincourt, but less for personal heroism than for proving one of the great military innovations of the time. The British use of the longbow was no less momentous to that battle than the Lee Enfield was to WWI.

[Captain Seafort]

By the time of Agincourt the French had learnt a great deal about how to fight a longbow-equipped army - for starters their best armour was proof against the bow. The result was that, while there were certainly long-range casualties, the battle was won in hand-to-hand combat, in which the French were hampered by their armour in vast amounts of mud, which clogged them up while the much lighter English yeomen were able to move relatively freely.

[Mikey]

I believe the longbow had more to do than you're giving it credit for.

Don't get defensive - it was intended as a compliment.

[Captain Seafort]

It wasn't intended to come off as defensive, simply that late-medieval armour was a lot more effective at stopping longbows than earlier. Certainly the bow had an effect, in slowing the initial French charge and causing casualties, but it was no longer the outright battle-winning weapon of Crecy and Poitiers.

[Mikey]

While I agree that the longbow didn't have the same lethality as earlier in the war, the psychological effect of being showered with missiles while far from being able to engage in return was a huge weapon against the French.

[Deepcrush]

First off, it had been raining heavily for several days. So the French heavy infantry, Knights and anyone mounted was barley able to move shortly into the battle. To add they were fighting on a hill of mud which was very narrow at the top.

Second, the most current numbers I've heard put England at 7000 men vs. 20000 men for France.

Third, the long bow failed to stop the French knights marching in the center. It did however earn keep against the heavy infantry to the flanks which from being on the side of a hill and trying to keep the slow pace of the mud stuck knights where easy prey. The Long bow's was best in that even though few men fell to it, many horses did.

Forth and most importantly, the French wanted to capture the English troops and ransom them back, where as the English were just looking to kill as many French as they could. The losses to the battle were about even on both sides yet the bulk of troops lost on the French side was that of the knights making up the center rank, this was the only part of their army that was on the top hill's plateau. The rest were stuck trying to keep form and spent most of the time hiding behind shields to keep safe from the long bow. Again the long bow failed to kill many men but at the time it was thought that a English long bowman could kill any man not behind armor or shield. Fear played a strong part in keep the other two thirds of the French army at bay (Fear? The French fear nothing!) The battle was won by tactics. Henry V, saw the French army that was following and was smart to make for high ground, luck with the rain and knowledge that if he could stop their mounted units then he could slow their assault and only have to fight a slow moving enemy instead of one that could just ride over him. Henry used is IQ plus the luck god gave him that day and was smart enough to put them together.

[Deepcrush]

Important to remember!

The loss of even one knight would take years to replace! Yet the french lost as many a thousand!

[mwhittington]

[ And lets not get started on New Orleans, god knows what went wrong there![/quote]
I believe the problem was stated in a song called The Battle of New Orleans, written by Jimmy Driftwood. The verses I recall most were:
We fired our cannons, 'till the barrels melted down,
So we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round.
We filled his head with cannon balls and powdered his behind,
And when we touched the powder off, the 'gator lost his mind.