Earth force ships

Re: Earth force ships

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:16 pm

Jim wrote:
Graham Kennedy wrote:
Jim wrote:The central axis must have pieces that continue through the entire length of the shaft in order to keep the structural integrity.

No, you simply need a joint between the two that can take the necessary stresses.

Look, it works like this :

Image

The red striped part is stationary. The blue striped part rotates with the outer hull. All you need is a joint between the red and blue that can take the strains it needs to, and you're good to go. You float down a stationary axial corridor; you reach a section where there's a joint in the walls, and the corridor ahead is rotating around you. You're now in the axis of the rotating hull. You reach the hole, float on out, and climb down the ladder. Hey presto.


That works if the rotational portion is at the end of the ship, like an eraser on a pencil. It does not work if it is in the middle of the ship.

Actually it does; you simply need another similar linkage at the other side.

And incidentally, in discovery there was no through route - as evidenced by this layout :

Image

The Carousel section only joins to the rest of the hull on one side, not both.

You would have the command section at the front in red, the middle portion blue and then the engines in the back red. In this situation the front and back are not directly connected.

Well for one, there's no rule that the command section has to be at the front. But even if you do, what do you mean there's no direct connection? You simply go to the axis and float along. You have to go through a section of the axis that's rotating, sure, but so what?
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:29 pm

Okay, that works for the 2001 because it is at the tip, basically end of the axis, not in the middle of the length. They never actually go into the spine in that video, I get it. However, even in the 2001... if you enter the spine then the spine is spinning, it would be like getting into a washing machine on slow spin cycle.

But back to the B5 question...

The rotating section is in the middle, not at an end. Therefore the 2001 comparison does not hold. Once you move the actual spine/core/etc through the rotating section, not just attaching it to one end, it changes everything. Are you suggesting...

To make the Omega the took the Nova, cut it in half, added a middle section that would rotate, then gyro'ed the front and back 3rds so that they hold relative position to each other?
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:38 pm

Actually it's completely beyond doubt. I just checked out the movie; at 1:11:00 there's a scene showing exactly what I described; a stationary central axis, connected to a section of axis that rotates with the carousel :

Image
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:43 pm

Jim wrote:Okay, that works for the 2001 because it is at the tip, basically end of the axis, not in the middle of the length. They never actually go into the spine in that video, I get it. However, even in the 2001... if you enter the spine then the spine is spinning, it would be like getting into a washing machine on slow spin cycle.

But back to the B5 question...

The rotating section is in the middle, not at an end. Therefore the 2001 comparison does not hold. Once you move the actual spine/core/etc through the rotating section, not just attaching it to one end, it changes everything. Are you suggesting...

To make the Omega the took the Nova, cut it in half, added a middle section that would rotate, then gyro'ed the front and back 3rds so that they hold relative position to each other?

Pretty much, yes. Exactly that arrangement I posted earlier, only with a second joint on the other side of a carousel.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:04 pm

Graham Kennedy wrote:
Jim wrote:Okay, that works for the 2001 because it is at the tip, basically end of the axis, not in the middle of the length. They never actually go into the spine in that video, I get it. However, even in the 2001... if you enter the spine then the spine is spinning, it would be like getting into a washing machine on slow spin cycle.

But back to the B5 question...

The rotating section is in the middle, not at an end. Therefore the 2001 comparison does not hold. Once you move the actual spine/core/etc through the rotating section, not just attaching it to one end, it changes everything. Are you suggesting...

To make the Omega the took the Nova, cut it in half, added a middle section that would rotate, then gyro'ed the front and back 3rds so that they hold relative position to each other?

Pretty much, yes. Exactly that arrangement I posted earlier, only with a second joint on the other side of a carousel.


I just can not see there being a solid piece going through the middle of the Omega. The engineering and physics would be insane and fragile, keeping the front and rear relative. It is also odd that they NEVER were shown out of sync even in battle and badly damaged.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Coalition » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:28 pm

It could be possible where the rest of the hull is a solid, and the centrifuge area is resting on wheels. The red part of Graham's picture is fixed relative to the rest of the ship, while the blue and white part is the free-spinning centrifuge. Communications and power supply would be via induction, while water and sewage would be a separate system. Power and communication lines would run along the hull outside the centrifuge area (likely on opposite sides in case of combat damage).

For a combat situation, I'd expect the centrifuge to be slowed down gradually if one is expecting a fight, and halted via crash stop if not (this also serves to wake up anyone in the centrifuge if they are asleep).
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Graham Kennedy » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:40 pm

They really should stop the centifuge section spinning during combat, I'd have thought.

I'm not saying that this is how the ship is designed, by the way. Only that it's a possible way of doing it.

There is a way of doing it with a continuous core that I can think of... kinda hard to describe though. Essentially you have a continuous stationary core from front to back. Wrap the rotational section around it, but don't have it like two close-fitted cylinders moving over one another in contact - if you do that then you'd have to have a hole in each one, and you would have to jump through right quick when the holes line up and risk being cut in half if you were too slow.

So what you do is have a kind of "transition room"... a hole in the stationary axis that exits out into a room that wraps completely around the axis. Then in the floor of that room is the exit to the rest of the spin section. Kind of like the airlock principle, only for spin - a spinlock!

I might draw something up, as I don't know I've described it very well.

Edited to add :

Okay, like this :




The red axial core is completely stationary and unbroken. The green section is the rotational hull. I never liked a fixed axis because I figured the door in the rotating hull would be hard against the axial tube, meaning as it rotated the doors would slice through anything going through - like trying to walk onto an elevator as it went past your floor.

But with an arrangement like this you can take your time getting out of the axis door, as shown, then anchor yourself to the inner room which goes right around the axis and drop through into the rotation hull proper.

I actually like this arrangement quite a lot.
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